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 Post subject: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:48 pm 
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Citizens of the Emerald Hills,

Here is your July Althing agenda. The Althing will occur on the July 29th and 30th.

Item 1:
Add VI.A.6 (Renumber appropriately):
In addition to its BOD member duties, the BOD Secretary is responsible for:
a. Implementing all changes to the EH Corpora

Item 2:
Change V.A.4 to:
Pass a current EH Reeves test and EH Kingdom Corpora test with a score of at least 75%

Item 3:
Change V.F.2.F to:
Administering the EH Reeves test. At minimum, tests must be available at least 4 weeks prior to Crown Elections, and remain available until 2 weeks prior to Crown Elections

AND

Add V.F.2.G (Renumber appropriately):
Administering the EH Kingdom Corpora test. At minimum, tests must be available at least 4 weeks prior to Crown Elections, and remain available until 2 weeks prior to Crown Elections


Note: The item below has been removed from the current Althing agenda because we want to make the best change possible. We have heard some suggestions that would make this item better and address certain concerns. Unfortunately it is too late to change the item for this Althing so we are going to wait and resubmit this on the next Althing.

Change IV.E to:
1. Permanent changes to this Corpora may be authorized by an Althing or the BOD. These changes may have an effective date included in the item. If the item does not include an effective date, the change is effective immediately
a. An Althing may authorize any change to this Corpora that does not conflict with the Amtgard Rules of Play, Agreements created by the Circle of Monarchs, or State or Federal law
b. The BOD may authorize changes to the Corpora in order to bring the Corpora into compliance with State or Federal law
2. Temporary changes to this Corpora may be authorized by a joint decision of the Monarch and PM.
a. Joint decisions of the Monarch and Prime Minister are effective until the next Althing. (A duration of one to seven weeks)

AND

Change the current VI.A.7 to:
The BOD may only alter the Corpora under direction of an Althing, or to bring the Corpora into compliance with State or Federal law

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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:58 am 
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[youtube][/youtube]So we now have a plan to alter the Corpora without an Allthing. Sounds like laziness.....

Edited: it sounds like redundancy. Both the monarch and the PM, working together, may currently change corpora. Both are members of the BOD. Ergo, BOD is already able to alter corpora through that valve. This is redundant.


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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:41 pm 
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No, it is not laziness. If you read the wording it says "in order to bring it into compliance with state or federal law" this is to allow the bod to do its job. No althing is needed here as that would imply that there is a choice. Which in these cases there is not.

It is also not redundant as the changes that the monarch and pm make are added and then voted on via althing within 7 weeks. Note those changes have to go to althing. That is where this one steps in. It spells it out so that everyone knows what their duties and limits are.

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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:36 am 
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So currently the BOD has to work with the Monarch and PM in order to bring us into compliance with any government laws. The monarch and PM can make an emergency decision for up to 7 weeks and then hold a vote at the allthing. They also hold two seats in the BOD. The change would allow the BOD to adjust our corpora for any laws without Amtgard group discussion. It is to open ended in which laws however and the intent behind the corpora is to help with rules of play for this game. There is no regulatory laws listed in the corpora except to follow them. Each State has different laws and even those sometimes conflict with federal laws. I could give an entire list of differences from just TX to OK. I think this change to the corpora is to open ended for BOD changes that need to be made. As laws would mostly apply to code of conduct for players, I think this should be separated or listed as an appendix in the corpora. I also believe that consequences should be listed for infractions. This isn't as cut and dry allowing one group the access necessary to change corpora outside of their peers. However I do believe that code of conduct should be the responsibility of the BOD. Especially as two of the High Officer positions also are members of the BOD. I knew the intent was positive for these changes. I feel that as a group we should discuss alternatives to this wording and these changes.


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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:39 am 
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Originally Posted by Christina Coomes on Facebook:

So currently the BOD has to work with the Monarch and PM in order to bring us into compliance with any government laws. The monarch and PM can make an emergency decision for up to 7 weeks and then hold a vote at the allthing. They also hold two seats in the BOD. The change would allow the BOD to adjust our corpora for any laws without Amtgard group discussion. It is to open ended in which laws however and the intent behind the corpora is to help with rules of play for this game. There is no regulatory laws listed in the corpora except to follow them. Each State has different laws and even those sometimes conflict with federal laws. I could give an entire list of differences from just TX to OK. I think this change to the corpora is to open ended for BOD changes that need to be made. As laws would mostly apply to code of conduct for players, I think this should be separated or listed as an appendix in the corpora. I also believe that consequences should be listed for infractions. This isn't as cut and dry allowing one group the access necessary to change corpora outside of their peers. However I do believe that code of conduct should be the responsibility of the BOD. Especially as two of the High Officer positions also are members of the BOD. I knew the intent was positive for these changes. I feel that as a group we should discuss alternatives to this wording and these changes.

Oh Axident the forums make me crazy to look at. I know they are our medium but....

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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:53 am 
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Intresting... I wasn't thinking about the bod changing the code of conduct so much as the business side of things of things, like how we run althing for instance. In these instances we are not subject to which state we are in because we are registered in Texas.

After verifying, I have found the this change does not give the BoB access to change the CoC as those are specified in the rules of play and not in the copora.

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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:17 am 
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So in what laws would they need to be able to uphold to make changes. Is there something specific that I am not seeing that would not be in complaince?
The corpora lists out positions and duties, awards, and how we hold allthings with a few other items. They are a group's bylaws, which makes even less sense to have a small representation of the group to be able to make unannounced and unmoderated changes, since these would impact us a group. I think that all that needs to be done is the High officers made aware we are out of compliance. They make a ruling and advise kingdom on the why. As a kingdom we need to know what changes we need to make to follow all laws. But there would not be any reason that we would not vote in favor of coming into compliance with any law and I can not see any reason we shouldn't be informed on what we are out of compliance on.
As for code of conduct in the rule book, that is very small and open ended, based on interpretation. What is allowed by the rule book is loose at best. I know the why before that starts a disagreement but our Corpora should fill in those 'gaps' for a lack of a better word as well. That is the part I feel the BOD should help with. To stay in compliance (and I have to use that loosely) with laws. Ultimately if something comes up legally that will be who has to represent us as a group. It will be those items that have the potential to get us legally disposed.

Acceptable Conduct
In Amtgard
Amtgard strives to maintain a fun, friendly, welcoming
environment for mature players. As such the following
behaviors are not acceptable and may lead to ban from combat
or attending:
1. Speech that would cause a reasonable person to fear
for their property or safety
2. Physical violence outside of the normal bounds of
combat conduct
3. Sexual harassment or inappropriate sexual contact
4. Theft or willful destruction of other peoples property
5. Repeated unwillingness to follow game rules
6. Creating a hostile environment detrimental to the
enjoyment of the group as a whole
The Monarch, with the joint agreement of either the Prime
Minister or the Guildmaster of Reeves, may ban a player
from their group (and subgroups) for any of the reasons
including, but not limited to, the list above at their discretion
for any amount of time they feel appropriate. Any Monarch,
with the joint agreement of either the Prime Minister or the
Guildmaster of Reeves, may end a ban on a player at any time
with the exception that a park Monarch may not overturn a
ban instituted at the Kingdom level.

I just want to post out a couple of areas that I knew off the top of my head where what is legal varies from Federal and State to State. These two areas are common in Amtgard, but go to show the direct differences in what is socially acceptable and how states felt they needed to expand on federal law.

http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.reso ... eID=002591

And even though this is Wikipedia unlike the map
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

I'm not sure as a group we should even be listing out such laws with specifics in our corpora. I know that the current changes to the corpora as listed above do not allow for which laws will be discussed, added or addressed and it will be setting a precident on allowing a small representation of our group to make these types of changes for us as a whole.


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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:04 am 
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This list was created 11 years ago, when the BOD had a state lawyer as president who meticulously researched the state codes and let the BOD know that we had to follow them regardless of what our corpora said, these are the types of things that this change was suggested to implement in our corpora:
Elder Vermilion wrote:
Tx business code:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/?link=BO


Meetings: A meeting is where voting is held, so for us this is an Election or an Althing.

Annual (or regular) Meetings (these are what we call elections):
"Sec. 22.153. ANNUAL MEETING. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), a corporation shall hold an annual meeting of the members at a time that is stated in or determined in accordance with the corporation's bylaws.
(b) If the bylaws provide for more than one regular meeting of members each year, an annual meeting is not required. If an annual meeting is not required, directors may be elected at a meeting as provided by the bylaws."

Special meetings (These are what we call non-election Althings) Keep in mind that for our purposes we call the "President" position "Monarch."
"Sec. 22.155. SPECIAL MEETINGS OF MEMBERS. A special meeting of the members of a corporation may be called by:
(1) the president;
(2) the board of directors;
(3) members having not less than one-tenth of the votes entitled to be cast at the meeting; or
(4) other officers or persons as provided by the certificate of formation or bylaws of the corporation."


Notice of meeting:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#22.156

Between 10 and 60 days before a "meeting."
Spoiler! :
"... shall provide written notice of the place, date, and time of a meeting of the members of the corporation and, if the meeting is a special meeting, the purpose or purposes for which the meeting is called. The notice shall be delivered to each member entitled to vote at the meeting not later than the 10th day and not earlier than the 60th day before the date of the meeting."


Publication of the list of voting members:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#22.158

Within 2 business days of the publication of the notice of meeting. So at the least 8 days before the "meeting."

Spoiler! :
"After setting a record date for the notice of a meeting, a corporation shall prepare an alphabetical list of the names of all its voting members. ... Not later than the second business day after the date notice is given of a meeting for which a list was prepared in accordance with Subsection (a), and continuing through the meeting, the list of voting members must be available at the corporation’s principal office or at a reasonable place in the municipality in which the meeting will be held, as identified in the notice of the meeting, for inspection by members entitled to vote at the meeting for the purpose of communication with other members concerning the meeting."



Quorum:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#22.159

There ARE a minimum number of voters that must attend a "meeting" in order to hold a vote.
We have never worried about it because it is 1/10th of the eligible members. For example for the V8 vote we would have had to have(at the most) 34 people vote.

Spoiler! :
QUORUM OF MEMBERS. (a) Unless otherwise provided by the certificate of formation or bylaws of a corporation, members of the corporation holding one-tenth of the votes entitled to be cast, in person or by proxy, constitute a quorum.


Records and reports:

We have to keep financial books, and publish them at least annually.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#22.352

Spoiler! :
"A corporation shall maintain current and accurate financial records with complete entries as to each financial transaction of the corporation, including income and expenditures, in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles. Based on the records maintained under Subsection (a), the board of directors of the corporation shall annually prepare or approve a financial report for the corporation for the preceding year."


Secretary of State report:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#22.357

The SoS can send us a letter asking us to update the names and addresses of our BOD members. We have 30 days to respond, and we have to respond or lose our "corporation in good standing" status.

Spoiler! :
"The secretary of state may require a domestic corporation or a foreign corporation registered to conduct affairs in this state to file a report in accordance with Chapter 4 not more than once every four years as required by this subchapter. The report must state ... the address of the registered office of the corporation in this state and the name of the registered agent at that address; ... and the names and addresses of the directors and officers of the corporation."

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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:14 am 
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Ok so this all appears to be covered by the current Corpora. Records are kept and reported by the BOD. All things are covered under the corpora. Which part of this 11 year old list still needs to be legally mandated or can not be enforced by an emergency declaration of high officers?


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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:26 am 
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Just from this list, the corpora does not accurately reflect:
Who can call an Althing; how often Althings can be held; the petition to remove officers (who has to sign, and the percentage required are both incorrect); whether an Althing can be called more than 2 months in advance(it can't); the timing of the publication of the voters list; Quorum for an Althing(and elections).

So, the last two items on that list you could argue are already covered adequately by the Corpora.

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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:37 am 
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And you feel that the BOD should be able to make these changes without kingdom input vs allowing a vote for the items specifically? How to remove elected officals becomes a BOD responsibility....wouldn't it be better to have these items voted on individually?


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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Here is the original line that is addressed below.
Axident wrote:
The BOD may only alter the Corpora under direction of an Althing, or to bring the Corpora into compliance with State or Federal law


Now if you read the whole line that was posted (quoted above) you can see that it has well defined limitations for when and what the BoD can change in the Corpora.

Those being
1) Under direction of an Althing.
2) To bring the Corpora into compliance with State or Federal law.

Below I will address your concerns specifically and hopefully put you at ease.

Stormie wrote:
you feel that the BOD should be able to make these changes


The BoD as defined by the corpora section VI. A. 4. states that "The BOD will work with the Monarch and PM in areas where the club has dealings with various government agencies and their institutions and laws."

So, by the corpora they are defined as the group responsible for dealing with "government agencies and their institutions and laws". So, yes they should be allowed to update the Corpora but again ONLY if it is NOT in compliance with the laws set forth by those government agencies or their institutions.

The section that states "to bring the Corpora into compliance with State or Federal law" severely limits what they have the ability to change. It allows them to make changes only if our Corpora conflicts with State or Federal law and then they ONLY have the rights to bring it into compliance.

This does not give them the ability to change ANYTHING ELSE.
The CoC is completely safe because it is not even in the Corpora so it cannot be affected.
How officials are removed could be affected but again ONLY if our process DOES NOT comply with the laws that we MUST follow and then ONLY to bring it into compliance with those laws. Nothing more.

Stormie wrote:
the BOD should make these changes without kingdom input vs allowing a vote for the items specifically?


Yes, because in the instances where the BoD would be allowed to change the corpora, which let me state again is ONLY where it is NOT in compliance with state or federal laws, are items that we MUST follow because they are the law. So what is there to be voted on? Voting implies that we have a choice here which we do not.

Stormie wrote:
How to remove elected officals becomes a BOD responsibility.


The statement above is total conjecture, completely inaccurate and in fact specifically misrepresents what is stated.

This change would NOT allow the BoD to change section IV. C. (which is the section that addresses removing club officers), which specifically requires an Althing, unless it conflicts with State or Federal law, which it does not. In face the requirement of an Althing to remove elected officials is specifically required by law. So this just reinforces the requirement of an Althing.

However, If for some reason the BoD found that this section was not in compliance then they could only change it so that it complies with those laws and nothing more.

I think what was missed here is that this DOES NOT give them the ability to make ANY changes to the corpora, except in specific instances where it is found to conflict with State or Federal laws and in those instances they can only change it so far as to bring it into compliance.

I believe that this explains what is being voted on very well. I would ask that in the future if you would please ask for clarifications and refrain from jumping to conjectures I would appreciate it. Statements are made based on incorrect conclusions have a tendency to muddle the issue and confuse people. Whereas these same statements when posed as questions allow for explanations to be made and a deeper understanding to be achieved by all.

If you have any further questions I will be happy to answer them.

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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:35 pm 
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On Facebook Stormie wrote:
I can not see 'ANY' reason that we as a group would ever not need to be informed or advised.


I could not agree more with the statement above. We should definitely put in place some form of notification process for changes made to the Corpora by the BoD.

Would posting them to the EH forums just like we do with Althing Agenda's work for these purposes?

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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Quote:
I could not agree more with the statement above. We should definitely put in place some form of notification process for changes made to the Corpora by the BoD.

Would posting them to the EH forums just like we do with Althing Agenda's work for these purposes?
Quote:


Absolutely! That is a great start. Also adding a process for review or time allowed for review would be another great addition to this.

As far as the other sections or replies in quoted text... the contingency still currently falls the the Monarch and PM, who ultimately have to bring it before an allthing. BOD acts as 'advisors' in this case. They may be responsible for compliance but at the level of advisement. On the removing of elected officials while may need some tweeking to be legally compliant, ultimately should go before a vote on who signs and how the paperwork gets processed. It is a club officer elected by members of said club.

The concern will always be where to draw the line for what is written for legal compliance and what is a function of the club.


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 Post subject: Re: July Althing Agenda
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:26 pm 
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While I feel that the intent behind this is necessary, I feel to make chnages that are so open ended can lead to abuse. My feelings remain that more needs to be added to this intent.


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