The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills

Althing Results… New Corpora Fails

Well I see that a full 27% of the voting populace decided that they liked Forest’s ideas about the corpora changes… and the remaining 73% Voted No.
How about that…???
17 votes for the new corpora…!
Say, isn’t that just about Barony status…?
But not enough to carry a kingdom vote.

So, if this trend of actually holding Althing Votes carries over to the RoP…
We’re making some real progress.

Remember these suggestions..

Amend Kingdom Corpora to Elect the Rules Representative through a Populace Vote.
Require Rules Representative to hold regular Althings on any & all rule changes or revisions to be presented to the CoM @ Clan.

Amend Kingdom Corpora to require Monarch abide by the populace vote on any & all rule changes or revisions presented to the CoM @ Clan and to represent such during any vote called.

Don’t forget… V8 is going to happen! Whether they tell you about it or not.
If We don’t stand up and Do Something, we’ll have to live with whatever is decided by the “Gang of Five” (*give or take)

* The current roster for the committee:
Brennon - Chair, Emerald Hills
Roger - Neverwinter
Chekers - Goldenvale
Phocion - Dragonspine
Kord - Iron Mountains

So, if You feel that the Kingdom of The Emerald Hills has not been “represented”…
Perhaps you should change the situation… You have that right.

Just a reminder, the 2012 and 2013 revision and changes process has been suspended while the ‘committee’ re-writes the “core” of Amtgard Rules.

The new version (V8) will be brought up for a final vote by the CoM at Clan in 2014.
The entire future of our kingdom in the game could be decided by that single vote.
Do you really want that to happen…???

Don’t sit back and let others decide what Amtgard will look like in the near future.
Get involved… Get your people involved… Get the Word Out!

Take Back Your Kingdom…!!!

Just sayin’

Breaking the Game

I have heard this phrase a lot lately and was wondering how long this has been the case…
Who is ‘breaking’ Amtgard and how broken is it?

Brennon says that he has to fix Amtgard at its core…
Does that mean it has been broken from the start?
I’m told to work within the system, even if it’s broken.
Brennon put the entire process on HOLD for Two Years…
And I’m told to submit a “proposition”.
Yeah, that’s not really working for me.

The game wasn’t “broken” when 7.0 was crammed down our throats…
Or rather, when Forest convinced the populace of EH to just take it as it was and “work the bugs out later”.

Yes, 6th edition certainly could have used a re-write and up date, with more involvement from the different kingdoms at the time…
But that’s not what happened.

Now, once again, we are being told by Brennon himself that it’s all broken and therefore he and his “committee” need to re-write the entire game.

I have read what has been linked here by Elder…
And I have heard the rumors going around.
I have tried many, many times in the past to offer my input to Brennon and his “system”…That just doesn’t seem to work out too well.

There’s a “System” in place alright…
But it’s plainly not the one most people think.

I say… Vote On It!
Take Back Your Kingdom…!!!

I wholeheartedly encourage people to voice their opinion and exercise their vote with regards to the rules process and Amtgard government in general.

If you have any specific feedback about V8, feel free to contact me directly via these forums, post about it in these forums, post about it on e-sam, contact me directly on e-sam, or email the committee using the AmtgardV8@gmail.com address. Please take the time to search for 'V8' on this forum and on e-sam to see what information and feedback has already been submitted so you can join in the discussion in a knowledgeable way.

Brennon on Version 8.0

Brennon
The V8 group doesn't have kingdom reps. The only two members that are actually part of the group, from the CoM perspective, are Brennon (me) and the sitting Rules Rep Organizer (Medryn). Kord, Roger, Phocion, Checkers, and Tanath are all people I think are useful and helpful in working on the project. I do most of the heavy lifting and initial direction, then they pick it apart and provide feedback. Together we put out something more or less workable. The group is structured this way to be dynamic and effective. Prior experience both in Amtgard and real life has demonstrated that committees of appointed people, while good for doing revisions or small changes, are bad at creating entirely new works. Hence working outside the Rules Rep framework.


Can you believe this guy…??? If he doesn’t represent EH, who does he represent?
Brennon himself has taken the place of Aramithiris… he even breaks his own rules by going “outside the Rules Rep framework”. (although JW had a lot more personality)

IMHO… Brennon is selling us all short. Or certainly ‘selling’ something.
He claims that he and his hand-picked “committee” are the only people who can and should re-design Amtgard at “its core”. (*his words)
How can the guy who hardly wore garb during his entire reign as king, be qualified to re-write the game for the known Amt-world…??? Oh yeah, he ‘bought’ the rights!

Brennon
you should propose a corpora amendment requiring the monarch to bring each rules change/clarification item up for a vote at althing and to be required to vote that way at the CoM meeting. The CoM simply records however the monarch votes, it does not accept or recognize the results of althings, polls, etc. It's up to the individual kingdoms to ensure their monarch votes in a manner compatible with their corpora/government.


Yeah, I’m working on that…Thanks!

Brennon
Do you have specific suggestions or feedback? What makes it so far off the mark? I'm sure we would all like to know what your specific concerns are with the proposals.


The armor and weapon system is complex and seems to favor those who can afford the costs of purchasing it, something which Amtgard traditionally tried to balance out with abilities, weapon damage and lives. The battle games are short fighter-practice & ditch-type and have no depth and development. Even after 7.0 had become accepted, at least Sir Luke had Amtgard Seven modules to bring more adventure into the fighting. If the new class and lives system is anything like I’ve heard, then it is completely different.

What is the overall direction Brennon is taking the game?
I believe it reads less like a LARP and more like a LAC (live action combat).
And it is different… since 7.0 this ‘direction’ has been more toward a sport organization

I’m not the guy to pick apart the details in what’s wrong with this Version 8.
*still coming to terms with 7th ed. changes in my own few classes for that*
But I can point out the overall feed-back from the people I know who actually enjoy a good game of Amtgard. And they don’t seem to like it much either.

So, to all those people I say… Dress Up… Perform in a Living Play… Hide and Seek in the Woods… Tag with Foam Swords… Take the Hill… Rescue the Princess… Kill the King… Save the Kingdom…!!!
Play *Amtgard!

*while you still recognize it

I don't represent anybody in particular. Another way to look at it is that I work for Amtgard directly, rather than for any specific kingdom. My specific mandate comes from the Circle of Monarchs, which asked me to put something together for them to review. Anybody else could do the same, and I encourage competition.



In what way?



I don't recall saying that. Can you provide a link to that statement?



What part of the armor and weapon system do you feel is too complex? Could you give me a practical example? We definitely have concerns about the proposal, which is why we are actively seeking play-testing and feedback on it. I would be interested to hear what your specific concerns are.




The proposed battlegame section seeks to encompass the variety of games that we play, not dictate what types of games are played. What particular part of the proposal makes you feel like longer, more involved battlegames are being eliminated?



What section of the rules causes you to feel that way? Either 7.0 or the V8 drafts.



It seems disingenious to claim the proposals are negative without first hand knowledge. Have you read the proposals?



I definitely think people should do those things if they enjoy them. I'm happy to be able to contribute to the rules in such a fashion as to enable people to do those things more enjoyably.

Now that I’ve given B his own subject line, perhaps he’ll be more courteous in the future. One can only hope.

Well, after further investigation I have to admit that I was Totally Wrong about this entire V8 thing… That’s right, I can admit when I’ve made a mistake.

Apparently B isn’t the only one deciding how we are going to play Amtgard in the future, though it does look as though what committee there is… well they’re pretty much on Brennon’s Band Wagon. Not sure why, but that would be the case once again.
Did the CoM actually want Brennon to lead the road into the future…??
Looks that way, doesn’t it!

What will an Assassin look like in V8…
Well, to start with…
my studded leather armor which has always been two points isn’t ¼ inch thick, so it’s worth Nothing. That goes for my studded leather covered baseball legs as well.
My 2&1/4 inch diameter, tape-covered daggers will once again be illegal.
My Arrows “must” be labeled with my name.
And still no idea how many lives I have.

I still can’t quite get the armor system…
It looks as though if it ain’t metal, it ain’t worth shit.
But I could be wrong.

For trying to “stream-line” the game, it sure looks complicated to me.

Still trying to understand why Armor has to be so “realistic” while weapons are still Pixie Sticks. No Draw Cuts…WTH…???
Yeah, I know, that’s in 7.0… but it still bothers me.

Shield pressing?
Shield locking your weapon?
Shield sailing across the field? *terrain effect…???
No “body-to-body” (physical) contact…???
No Touch of Death?

I have to admit, I had only read bits & pieces until now.
After reading what I have found so far…
Yeah… Call it whatever you want, but it’s not any Amtgard we’ve ever played.

The Good News… I’ll get to lug around those Big ASS Daggers again!
Oh BOY…!!! I can hardly wait till 2014…

Or…
Maybe something else will come along before then…

Just sayin’

Not that I actually support v8, (I'm still waiting to see the classes, if they still exist, before really going one way or another.), but just 'cause I noticed it, and thought you might like to change your argument's wording slightly...

Unless I missed another update, your armor should be kosher. 1/4" is just the heavy gauge according to the table of the v8 draft I have a copy of. Says 1/16th to under 3/16 is 1 point, 3/16 is 2, 1/4 for the +1 bonus.

Only change I really saw there was that the bonuses are limited to +1 over base now... which... I almost kind of agree with. I think people trying to turn leather into plate can get a bit absurd, but I've also seen some incredible examples that I'd say more than warrant their rating. Hate to see anything that might discourage that kind of creativity. Unfortunately, it becomes a choice between letting those people have their bread and butter, or dealing with min/maxers.

That's neither here nor there, really though. However it does remind me of something else, part of your mix up is something I've wondered about. Why is leather measured in the amtgard rulebook in fractions of an inch, instead of oz.? Most retailers I've looked into give it in ounces, first, then usually in millimeters.

Fractal inches just seems messy to me...

I'm half asleep right now, so I'm sure my numbers are off a little, but might be easier, especially for newbie crafters like me not to have to go double check a conversion chart constantly by making it a little more like:

3oz-9oz- light
10oz up- thick
And I can't even think about what oz might be close to the 1/4" for heavy gauge, right now.

just my thought's though.

_________________
Lif er draumr. All draumr lúka
Life is a dream. All dreams end.

Though all I see is corrupted, and all I touch crumbles like ash... Though the world may be dead, the light of my god will nourish and His shadow will revive, for my faith is beyond breaking, and guides me towards the moment I wake from this Dream.

I'm not sure how thick your leather armor is, but it will likely have the same value as it currently does. See Sahriels post on the subject for more details.



Continue to be illegal, you mean. Those requirements haven't changed in five years or so.



Absolutely. Archery is far and away the most dangerous thing we do in Amtgard. It is very important that people take responsibility for the arrows they bring on the field. Further, it's just a good idea to write your name on your projectiles. This requirement has been in place for five years or so.



Try reading the V8 Milestone 2 release on battlegames and lives. That should explain the concepts clearly.



Taken with the damage and armor system as whole, armor on the low end (cloth, leather) was slightly increased in power, while armor in the middle (chain, butted plates) was left alone, and armor on the high end (real brig, plate) was moderately increased in power.



It's an interesting situation. The system is more complicated to explain up front, but easier to use in the middle of combat. That's the goal, anyway. Of the playtesting done so far we have four positive or neutral reviews and one negative review. I'm actively soliciting more feedback and playtesting with regards to the system. We want to make sure it's actually an improvement and that we get it right. I'm planning on running a test on it this weekend at Eagleshire (weather permitting). You're welcome to come lend a hand.



This is certainly controversial. I'm not sold on it, but enough members of the working group felt it was important to try out that we wrote it up and put it in. I'm interested in whatever playtesting or feedback anybody can provide.