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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:41 pm 
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Finn";p="2992 wrote:

This is not an isolated incident. This sort of incident (alleged criminal activity) has been brought to the attention of the Board of Directors, including previous Monarchs of the Emerald Hills, several times within the past year by myself alone. The Board of Director's response to the incidents I alone reported to them - I found to be unsatisfactory from a personal and from a legal standpoint.


Are you refering to these responses?
http://www.amtgard-eh.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=323
http://www.amtgard-eh.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=329
http://www.amtgard-eh.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=384
http://www.amtgard-eh.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=423
-Clio


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:38 pm 
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Finn";p="2993 wrote:
Squire Steel";p="2991 wrote:
{snip} I do not think it is the responsibility of amtgard to hold a judicial system for an obvious criminal offense.


This is precisely what we are /not/ doing. Amtgard as a corporation and the officers - Reeves, Monarch, B.O.D., etcetera - are /not/ taking it upon themselves to determine questions of fact, questions of law, etcetera. They are deferring to law enforcement in the case of /prima facie/ evidence of a crime, in the proposed allthing item. They also, IMNSHO, need to include a comprehesive set of qualifications to bar from Reeve-qualification and/or uniformly bar from participation people who /res ipsa loquitur/ commit certain criminal activity(ies) or who are legally convicted of certain criminal activity(ies) or who repeatedly violate the Corpora or Rules of Play - such that the person is plainly unfit for office and/or participation. I feel this is necessary in order to avoid civil and criminal liability to the Corporation and its' various officers, for reasons detailed in another post in this thread.

I am not a lawyer, and this posting is not legal advice. This posting is only my opinion. I am however confident that a qualified legal professional would provide advice consonant with my opinion. Full Disclosure: I am currently unable to fully participate in Amtgard due to concerns for my safety, and the unsatisfactory response to date of the Board of Directors and other officers of the Emerald Hills to my concerns and to certain incidents. Information in this posting may reference those incidents and concerns - nothing in this posting is to be construed to be applicable to those concerns unless explicitly noted here or elsewhere. Your milage may vary. If you learn only /three/ things from this, let this be the other one: thepurification.org is weird.


To be accurate, you are currently unwilling (not unable) to participate.

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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:18 am 
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Sir Corbin";p="2997 wrote:
Finn, I don't know when it will be safe for you to return to games like Amtgard. There will always be fighting, heated moments when rowdy, excited, or passionate men collide. Every person on the field may be a Reeve, but human nature will not change.

To that point, I don't think every altercation should result in expulsion. Competition heats up and we lose ourselves sometimes.

Wonton acts of violence are a different matter and are clearly separable in my eyes from the passions of the field--even when they occur on the field.


This is the point I was trying to make. Depending on who is in office this proposal has tremendous ability to be abused.

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 Post Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:10 pm 
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Septumus";p="3021 wrote:
This is the point I was trying to make. Depending on who is in office this proposal has tremendous ability to be abused.


Um.

This is why we vote in our officials and execuitive officers. If you dont feel those in office or running for office are upstanding enough, either run or encourage someone you think is right for the job to run.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:59 pm 
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Forest Evergreen";p="3003 wrote:
Finn";p="2993 wrote:
Squire Steel";p="2991 wrote:
{snip} I do not think it is the responsibility of amtgard to hold a judicial system for an obvious criminal offense.


This is precisely what we are /not/ doing. Amtgard as a corporation and the officers - Reeves, Monarch, B.O.D., etcetera - are /not/ taking it upon themselves to determine questions of fact, questions of law, etcetera. They are deferring to law enforcement in the case of /prima facie/ evidence of a crime, in the proposed allthing item. They also, IMNSHO, need to include a comprehesive set of qualifications to bar from Reeve-qualification and/or uniformly bar from participation people who /res ipsa loquitur/ commit certain criminal activity(ies) or who are legally convicted of certain criminal activity(ies) or who repeatedly violate the Corpora or Rules of Play - such that the person is plainly unfit for office and/or participation. I feel this is necessary in order to avoid civil and criminal liability to the Corporation and its' various officers, for reasons detailed in another post in this thread.

I am not a lawyer, and this posting is not legal advice. This posting is only my opinion. I am however confident that a qualified legal professional would provide advice consonant with my opinion. Full Disclosure: I am currently unable to fully participate in Amtgard due to concerns for my safety, and the unsatisfactory response to date of the Board of Directors and other officers of the Emerald Hills to my concerns and to certain incidents. Information in this posting may reference those incidents and concerns - nothing in this posting is to be construed to be applicable to those concerns unless explicitly noted here or elsewhere. Your milage may vary. If you learn only /three/ things from this, let this be the other one: thepurification.org is weird.


To be accurate, you are currently unwilling (not unable) to participate.


To be accurate, I am currently unable to participate. Threats to my health and safety were made at Amtgard Events and on Amtgard Forums. To date, there is no satisfactory response from the corporation as to how those specific threats will be dealt with, nor a satisfactory response as to how such issues will be dealt with in the future. I have obligations to other parties than Amtgard, as well as to Amtgard. For me to knowingly place myself in danger is unacceptable. There are more facts to the situation than you are aware of, and you are neither myself, nor a court of law nor are you a legal professional. Your assertion that I am merely unwilling to physically participate is ignorant and incorrect, and I will thank you to not hold and espouse strong opinons about things you don't understand, especially when they are intended to both disrespect and to harass me.


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Quote:
Your assertion that I am merely unwilling to physically participate is ignorant and incorrect, and I will thank you to not hold and espouse strong opinons about things you don't understand, especially when they are intended to both disrespect and to harass me.


I guess Forest won't be thanked.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:38 pm 
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Sirrakhis";p="3055 wrote:
Septumus";p="3021 wrote:
This is the point I was trying to make. Depending on who is in office this proposal has tremendous ability to be abused.


Um.

This is why we vote in our officials and execuitive officers. If you dont feel those in office or running for office are upstanding enough, either run or encourage someone you think is right for the job to run.


Voting on candidates is insufficient. It is the responsibility of the corporation to set guidelines and policy that cover foreseeable circumstances, and the responsibility of officers to carry out those guidelines and policies. Depending upon the personal qualities of the various officeholders is no different than being unincorporated. Whether someone is right for an office is a matter of their capability to carry out that office; It is not a matter of 'will this person's tenure personally benefit me, will they set policy that benefits me'.

When people are voted in to office based on popularity or personal friendhsip or biased opinion, you get officials who don't do a good job. You get officials who buck tradition and "gentlemen's agreements" in order to serve themselves or their cronies. You get munchkins and rules rapists in charge of the game, people who will destroy it by their direct action and by bringing law enforcement down upon the corporation and its' officers, and not merely the primary wrongdoers in a given scenario.

Again, /legally/, the Officers and individuals in Amtgard, Inc. Kingdom of the Emerald Hills are neither (with some exceptions) deputised law enforcement, regular law enforcement, legal functionaries, attorneys, judges, etcetera. The worthiness of allegations, /prima facie/ evidence, eyewitness accounts of serious criminal infractions are NOT UP TO THEM TO DECIDE. IMNSHO, Their ONLY responsible and legally-permissible policy and action in the event of /prima facie/ evidence, firsthand eyewitness, or allegation of a criminal act is to contact the proper authorities and turn the matter over to them.

Texas legal corporations exist for the benefit of their members as well as for the greater public good. By acting in the role of an officer of a texas legal corporation, a person inherently takes on duties and responsibilities that go beyond their mere self-interest. When executing that office, they must act not only to the benefit of the corporation but also to the benefit of the public at large - they must act in their own self-interest third, in the benefit of the public first, and the benefit of the corporation second.

Having a de-facto undocumented (not in the Corpora) policy of actively avoiding contacting the authorities in the event of /prima facie/ evidence, firsthand eyewitness, or allegation of a criminal act - is making the officer and the corporation accessories to the crime. In the case of Amtgard, Inc. Kingdom of the Emerald Hills, the policy is de-facto to not contact the authorities in such a scenario, and is in fact far from undocumented. It is testified to by several members on this very thread and quite likely on e-mail lists in this kingdom and in others. These message boards are not safe from law enforcement investigation, not safe from subpoena.

Officers of the corporation also have a duty to act in good faith to preserve evidence of any criminal acts.

What I seem to be aware of, and those of you who seem to think that this is "yet another chance to disrespect and harass finn for being an inconvenient truth" seem to fail to grasp: This is not a situation that can adequately be left up to members to draft policy and vote policy into place in order to cover the collective ass of Amtgard, Inc. Kingdom of the Emerald Hills. If I thought it was, I'd have written explicit language for an allthing item and submitted it myself. This is a situation that requires the attention, IMNSHO, of at least one qualified legal professional who is both objective and ethically unentangled with this game and corporation (as is required by ABA guidelines prohibiting conflicts of interest), in order to research and draft policy language that should then be submitted to the Allthing for discussion and approval. IMNSHO, anything less is corporate malfeasance.

The corporation is aware of a legal obligation it has now, and has always had. It is aware that it has failed to fulfill that legal obligation in the past (misfeasance). It has no choice but to perform due diligence to ensure it (by way of officers) performs this obligation now and in the future. Anything else is malfeasance.

This is my opinion. This is not legal advice. I am not a lawyer. Full Disclosure: I am currently unable to fully participate in Amtgard due to concerns for my safety, and the unsatisfactory response to date of the Board of Directors and other officers of the Emerald Hills to my concerns and to certain incidents. Information in this posting may reference those incidents and concerns - nothing in this posting is to be construed to be applicable to those concerns unless explicitly noted here or elsewhere. If you don't agree with me, maybe you should at least try to educate yourself on the subject first, or better yet ASK A QUALIFIED LEGAL PROFESSIONAL.


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:40 pm 
 
Again Finn, if you believe as you state that an event is "in game" the entire length of the weekend, any perceived threats would also be "in game".


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:49 pm 
 
So finn, you have stated if you witness the crime (assault, harassment) you must notify the police or face accessory charges yourself. In that case, on what dates can I find the police reports you filed on the above allegations of assault committed against yourself?

And what the fuck does IMNSHO mean? Every time I see it, I read it as " in my not so honest opinion"


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:52 pm 
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duo_corsair";p="3067 wrote:
Again Finn, if you believe as you state that an event is "in game" the entire length of the weekend, any perceived threats would also be "in game".


You are incorrect; You are not in possession of all the facts of the various situations, and I will thank you to not hold nor espouse strong opinions about things you do not understand.

Threats made to Reeves, acting in a capacity /as/ Reeves, plainly cannot be made "in character". Reeves are not portraying their characters, they are acting as rules officiants, in part ensuring the safety and well-being of participants and bystanders. Threats to the safety and health of a Reeve while acting in a capacity as a Reeve are clearly inexcusable. One may not argue with a Reeve acting in a capacity as a Reeve (one must comply with reasonable requirements of a Reeve and if they have an issue with it, bring it to the attention of the GM of Reeves), nor may one harass a Reeve acting in a capacity as a Reeve. Some people may believe otherwise. They are clearly wrong, and their behaviour may not be tolerated.

Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly is incapable of acting in the interests of others - a quality which is required of Reeve-qualified individuals and officers.


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:53 pm 
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duo_corsair";p="3069 wrote:
So finn, you have stated if you witness the crime (assault, harassment) you must notify the police or face accessory charges yourself. In that case, on what dates can I find the police reports you filed on the above allegations of assault committed against yourself?

And what the fuck does IMNSHO mean? Every time I see it, I read it as " in my not so honest opinion"

It means "In my not so humble opinion".

Also, this is not the Smack Talk forum. I require the same level of respect accorded to anyone else. Would an administrator please note of duo_corsair's behaviour and take due action? Thank you.


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:31 pm 
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I posit that the use of four letter words does not imply disrespect.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:40 pm 
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Sir Corbin";p="3080 wrote:
I posit that the use of four letter words does not imply disrespect.


Not only noted, but agreed with.

I dont have time to play babysitter on this game of "Lets see who we can get to be stupid on the Kingdom forums."

Locking this thread because our GM of Knights and other feel its more necessary to provoke than to debate and resolve.

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