The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills

Rather than submitting an issue to the Allthing, you'd like the CoK to come up with a procedure for dealing with such an issue, and submit that to an allthing.


Is that what you're saying?

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Rayel

Honestly the fix for most of this comes down to the lucky ones of us who are Squires. For the most part it is the Squires that are going to be the next crop of Knights. So I ask myself, what does it mean to be a Squire? For a lot of people I talk to it’s a chance to wear a nifty red belt and be able to tell people things that have the words “My Knight” in the sentence. For others is has a much deeper and more meaningful purpose. I personally find myself somewhere in the middle of the two. When I first received this belt, I really wasn’t sure what the point of it was. It was pretty much an “oh cool thanks” moment. Only until sometime later did I realized that it could be so much more then something to hang my pouch or mug from. Honestly, It wasn’t until fairly recently that I decided to actually dedicate myself to doing something more with it.
It’s obvious to me that we both want and need changes in the way Knights are made, and to the standard to which they are held. The best way to achieve this is through the Squires. Our Knights need to both set a better example as well as do a better job teaching us. I urge the Knights to not accept complacency from the Squires. I urge the Squires to not be complacent. Knights ask yourselves; “Why did I squire this person? Do they still deserve to be Squires?” If you for one moment think they do not then pull their belt. If you are a Squire and you do not feel your Knight is active in Amtgard or not the right Knight for you anymore; have the balls to tell them. If they are someone who cares for you as a brother (or sister) they will understand. If they don’t, they weren’t the right person for you anyway. If we want as a populace for Knights adhere to certain standards, then we should expect our Squires to comport themselves in a similar manner. As a human being I can say that if I attain a goal, for the most part I want the person who achieves the same goal after to me to have to work as hard or harder to get it.
Here is an example of what I have been talking about. Several years ago I was entering some items into a crown quals. Before judging started Sir Zig Sai Yuk (not my Knight and wasn’t judging) took me aside and explained that if I wanted a better score and a more complete entry I should make note cards with a brief description of the items. We were not in my home town, I didn’t even know where the store was, but before I could find out he had found me some note cards. I filled them out and attached them to my entries. To some that may be a small thing, but I am about as good with the “make shit” part of Amtgard as a brick, so for me it was very informative and helpful. I wasn’t his Squire, he didn’t have to help me, but he did anyway.

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"We must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of evil which we must fear most. And that is the indifference of good men."

Brennon: He has to accept that if he doesn't behave in a manner the kingdom approves of, he can have his knighthood revoked. That seems pretty reasonable

We have nothing that states what " the manner the kingdom approves of" actually is.
This opens an entirely different topic. A Knight's Code of Conduct

Brennon: You can't expect a group of people like that to yield any sort of cohesive agreement on anything, much less something as controversial as removing awards from themselves

Yes I can ... I fully believe that our CoK is perfectly capable of coming up with solutions to this whole issue as well as any other issues they may have. Remember this is an issue raised by Knights, concerning Knights ...and SHOULD be dealt with by Knights.

Last bit of my asking Knights to stop posting here was going to be an epic fail ...:)

Huzzah! Spoken like a person without their head up their own or another’s arse.

This Althing voting idea to remove any belts (or awards for that matter) should only be used in regards to serious crimes or dangerous actions performed by any person who does such stuff. Just trying to do stuff like this now because someone was awarded something under a circumstance that does not fit into the mold of our Corpora is a load of crap.

Sure I was not happy when my Squire Knighted two people without the CoK approval, but she did it. As Monarch she had the right to do it. Was it the right thing to do? Hell NO! But it was not outside of the intent of the corpora then. I have no idea what the corpora says now cuz I stopped paying attention to it about the same time and for the same reason I stopped caring about the RoP.

If we continue down this road, and start taking away stuff that people have already earned or awarded in the past then trust me when I say that nothing any of you earn in the future will be safe. All it will take is for one of your not so good friends and a bunch of their cronies to stack the vote and BAM, away go your titles and or awards. If that’s where this new Amtgard is heading then I want nothing to do with it. I’ve seen what a good-ole boys system can do to a small crowd of ego maniacs. As much as I enjoy most of the EH populace, and even though I have a measurable amount of faith in the same populace’s, I also know that human nature will lead this well intended action down a path of corruption.

Bottom line… Leave the perceived errors of the past lay, and instead let us all work on being better in our future.

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I swear, Delphos and Brennon really just remind me of a couple of bad Spock and Bones impersonators.

"Nevron disagrees with and dislikes me. He is, however, rational".- Brennon

"I'll admit, I trolled the smack forum." - Shady Troll

Is this a joke? You really think anyone in the game, knight or not, will fix his behavior because one person expressed disapproval?

Edited to add: You can preach all day about encouraging people to hold each other to a better standard for a better future, but that fails to address the issue at hand.

No, but the kingdom has a very clear method for making it's disapproval known: The Althing. Which is why it was eventually brought to the Althing to strip belts. I get that you don't like that, and I get that you think it's pointless. That doesn't change the fact that it's the only method we have, and the only one we are going to get agreement on.



I suppose it's nice to have faith. On the other hand, empirical evidence of the last twenty-five years of the kingdom indicates it won't happen. I can tell you with some amount of certainty that it isn't going to happen any time soon as the CoK currently agrees to disagree on the issue.

Rayel: Rather than submitting an issue to the Allthing, you'd like the CoK to come up with a procedure for dealing with such an issue, and submit that to an allthing.


Is that what you're saying?

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. (and asking for)

To be fair, Fytakin's behavior fits that bill. Darkangel is irritating and all, but it's not precisely the same.



I don't think knighthood should be 'safe', but I also don't want it to be retaliatory stripping for no particular reason. I don't see a clear path through the middle ground, however. There is a line to me that says Fytakin is a dangerous mistake that needs to be corrected and that Kitten is just the retard cousin you keep in your under-stairs closet. It's sort of a fuzzy line, though.




Part of a better future is knowing that we are held accountable for the mistakes we make. I essentially agree with you, but I think we need a more concrete plan about how to accomplish the moving-forward improvement.

Depends on who the person that expressed disapproval is. It depends mostly on how much you respect the person that is expressing their disapproval/disappointment. And as the person expressing the disapproval, if the recipient of said admonishment doesn't change or try to improve, then much as my bro said, maybe they weren't the right person for you.

With me, I've held myself back multiple times by running my mouth, acting a fool, and doing stupid shit. I've even had someone I greatly respected call me out on it during court, basically saying that they've had an award for me for quite some time, but everytime they're about to give it to me I go and start up a stupid shit storm. That actually made me start a period of self-reflection and take stock of what I was doing. In the end I decided to start working on controlling myself, and while I do still have several stumbeling blocks I'm still working to overcome, I've improved myself way beyond the person I was 2 years ago.

Honestly, I understand this current situation probably isn't going to go anywhere, as while many of us discussing this thread know both of the white-belt holders in question, and I would even be willing to go out on a limb and say that probably a good majority of the people down here that do know both of these people don't feel they are deserving, but the problem is the larger percentage of our populace doesn't know either of these people, and it's really unfair to them to be asked to strip a belt of someone they don't know from adam, regardless of how undeserving they are. I've come to terms with the fact that these 2 people will probably keep their belts and there's really nothing I can do regarding that. I just use them as an example of the type of knight I refuse to be, and use it as further motivation to better myself and make sure that not only do I earn the qualifications legitimately, but that I make sure not to accept the honor without the approval of the peers, and if I do ever get belted to continue to push myself to be a better person and help those coming up in the game to improve themselves.

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Draeven
"If you don't think drugs have done good things for us, then take all of your records, tapes and CD's and burn them" - Bill Hicks

"Until we stop viewing making a knight into a non-knight a fate worse than death we'll never be able to clean up knighthood." - Glen

Brennon ...I don't think that it is pointless. I feel that the method, procedure or what ever you want to call it ....should be a positive and constructive use of an Althing. I feel the point is for the CoK to come up with a formal procedure to strip a belt and that THAT goes to Althing for the populace to vote on.
Not remove the belt from every EH Knight ... not that a list of every EH Knight gets posted so the populace can pick and choose ..and not that we ditch the CoK.

I feel that this is a very important discusion. I feel that the solution is just as important. I feel that the Knights/CoK CAN create a formal procedure. I feel that when the knights/CoK does come up with a formal procedure that THEN they can request an Althing for the populace to include it in the EH Corpora ..and/or the CoK By-Laws. I feel THAT is a productive use of their effort and time....and a productive use of the populace's right to vote.

I don't dispute any part of this account. I certainly was quite open about my unhappiness with how the situation was handled.

What makes you 'feel' that they can independently come up with a solution? What evidence do you have to support such a feeling?

It's called trust, respect and faith in others. That is my evidence.

It's also the fact that members of the Knighthhood/CoK are all between 30-50+ years old. (correct me if I am wrong) They have the maturity of mundane life experiences to draw upon. Surely adults can work together and solve problems ... it happens every day.

The fact that they have been Knights for X amount of years gives them the qualifications to know about what it is to be a Knight ...what it takes to be a Knight. This is one of the things that separates them from the rest of us. It is why this issue should rest with them solving it.

My evidence is that it hasn't happened yet despite years of trying. Also, the CoK has basically decided that we can't agree on it. Agree to disagree, if you will. So not only have we (the knights) failed to do it, but we aren't pursuing it further.

You can have as much trust, respect, and faith as you want... That doesn't square with the facts of reality.

I have never once opined that the problems of the knights circle could be solved by exiling people we don't like. I don't think there are any problems that can't be solved by talking, and by knighting more people who are committed to positivity rather than enforcing an elite social order through exclusion and character assassination. Knighthood should serve the populace, not the few.