The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills

While it makes it more difficult to win, it also leads to a very defencive mentality in the somewhat less agressive teams that will not be willing to make the sacrifice. This could turn into a game of not letting the other guy win and risk us running out of time for the event.

Obviously we will play by what ever rules you set forth, just trying to warn you that it may slow down play and we WILL abuse this rule if it is left in place (and I exspect my opponets to abuse it also).

Spar

This is not from an in game perspective, but from a player perspective. I would think that for the players who travel to EH for this event, it would be a huge let down if they were not only killed, but shattered by the terrain and unable to be rezzed and or brought back into the battle.

Just something to think about.

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Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

Don't get in the water or protect yourself or don't wear armor

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Arch-Duke
Arch-Count
Sir Falamar LaCrane

What I am saying is that death because of terrain is bad enough, to say that a shove spell can shatter you out of a game is imbalanced and will discourage some people who otherwise migth want to wear their armor after driving 10+ hours.

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Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

I understand what your saying...Last life scenerio.....no summoning a corpse you can't see. I will consider making that an armor only option due to bodies can float. But I will have to armor constrict that rule.
But remember this..all you are doing is adding rules and complexity to the rules. I feel that it is acceptable to blanket the whole thing and shatter all deaths in the water.

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Arch-Duke
Arch-Count
Sir Falamar LaCrane

Great strides have been taken over the last several years to make BW a NATIONAL event. It is one of the few events where players from across the country begin planning several months in advance and making their weapons, armor and developing new or improved tactics and strategies to prove that their teams are the best. Changing a rule such as this a few weeks before the event invalidates so much of what these people may have been prepping for. This is not a regular game day where our local populace shows up with whatever equipment that they have in their Amtclosets but one were money and investments of time have already been made. IF this last minute rules change is going to be kept then please make efforts to make sure that everybody has the same information available to them, for while we have discussed the topic on this forum nobody else knows that we are considering changing the nature of the game… from a competitive standpoint, they will need to change their spell lists, weapon weights and team rosters to be on an even footing.

I luvs me some WBW,
Sparhawk

I do not intend to make a rules change. It is a clarification on an oversite that ppl are making. They think they will be able to summon a corpes that has sank in the water. Why would that be the case. If you drown off the side of a ship because the armor pulled you down what makes you think you could see that corpse to summon it? And in a last life game if you die in the water that would be your last life. This isn't a rules change. This is those overlooking the obvious.

I.e. this is the reason hvy armor was not used on ships! If you choose to wear armor then you pay the price of going in the drink!

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Arch-Duke
Arch-Count
Sir Falamar LaCrane

Let's look at some possibilities:

First:
A Scout stands in the middle of a field. He activates his Camouflage ability. An opposing Wizard casts Doomsday. The Scout's corpse is totally hidden from view. The Scout doesn't move. Three minutes later, a friendly healer casts Summon Corpse on the Scout.

Second:
A Barbarian wanders into the woods, far away from anyone on his team. He gets Sphered - his body is totally destroyed. He walks back to nirvana. As he begins his count, a friendly healer walks over near nirvana and casts Summon Corpse on the Barbarian.

Third:
A 6th level Warrior, wearing exquisitely crafted cloth armor, gets shoved off a boat. He immediately dies, and within seconds a friendly healer casts Summon Corpse on the Warrior.

You're right. Summon Corpse never makes any sense. I think, for the sake of realism, you should just outlaw the spell entirely.

I think, for the sake of realism, we should outlaw spells entirely.

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Lord Protector Nicodemus d'Aravoth
"I'm a f*cking saint."
- Nicodemus 3:16

From a game perspective here is why having the water act as a sever spirit (i.e. shatter) is over powered.

If you are in the water for 10 sec or more you die and are shattered.

It is not hard to use spells or physically manuver your opponents off of the connecting walkways between the boats. Once they are in the water (if they have 2pts or less armor on) they have 10 sec to get out. At this point, iceball, entangle, petrify, stun, hold person, and scout entangle all become not only death spells, but death & sever spirit all in one.

I am never a fan of terrain causing death, but at least don't make it shatter people, it will make this not only a reeving nightmare, but is completely overpowers some lower level spells.

This is my last post about it. I only hope that you take time to consider that most of the major "rules lawyers" are against this because we know how badly it can be abused.

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Forest Evergreen

Puppet Master of the EH

"Of course you are Forest. You're like the Mr. Burns of EH." - Finn

(insert titles and awards here)

I would really like to believe this is a joke on Falamar's part. The Corsair's can't honestly be considering making this major of a change less then 2 weeks before the event...

... nor are they going to make this big of a change to the rules and only announce it as an aside in a rules clarification thread on the Emerald Hills Forum. If this was really going to be the rule then surely I would have seen this posted in the WBW rules flyer, or on E-Sam, or as part of one of the mass e-mails sent out about the event. No one is stupid enough to spring this on the out of town teams day of the event.

Falamar sucessfully got us all riled up over something that couldn't possibly be true. Score 1 for Falamar.

This isn't a rules change. This is something you should have known. What would make you think you could summon a corpse that has drown? This is a last life scenario. 1+1=2 No rules changed, you would be rules fucking me by thinking you can do that. And I don't participate in E-SAM.

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Arch-Duke
Arch-Count
Sir Falamar LaCrane

Because I can summon the corpse of someone I hit with the magic version of a black hole. If I can pull someones body and spirit back from the other realm its shunted to after a sphere of annihilation hit them, I think a few fathoms of water should be realitively easy in comparison.



Thats nice, but it is evading my point rather then answering it. Its not included in the WBW rules. Its not posted on the WBW site. Its being "clarified" on the EH Forum and not made public anywhere else. I know of the rules change, because I obviously read this forum. People from out of kingdom are not being informed because they may not know where to look.

While the rules for Banner Wars are clearly your pervue as Warcrat, it IS a change from the published guidelines.

These are the published RULES I can find relevant to this discussion:
Summon Dead (Range 50ft) states "Dead person may return to the healer but is not again alive"

The only similar situation (Flight) where height is "implied" to be different that it actually is states that "Range for all game effects is considered to be the same as actual physical range:

The published rules WBW state:
"Entering the water in more than 2 pts of armor will result in a death."
It also states
"You may not move from where you are when you die unless Summon Corpse is used or to avoid mundane danger/impeding play"

I see no rules (in the rulebook or the published WBW rules) that say anything about severing/shattering players who die in the water being treated differently than anything else. I see several rules that clearly indicate it's possible.

While not mentioning Severing people who drowned might have been an oversight when the WBW Guidelines were published (and is still omited). To correct that oversight now, is clearly a rules change.

Goddamn it Rath! I can argue theory all day but the rules you have pointed out I cannot argue with.

"The only similar situation (Flight) where height is "implied" to be different that it actually is states that "Range for all game effects is considered to be the same as actual physical range"."

I find that I must resend this rules clarification.
You will be able to summon corpse which means no shatter in water.

But I have to say that I disagree with this and think that the rules lawyers are abusing it by being able to summon. And if it wasn't so close to the War I would have add'd it to the WBW rules.

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Arch-Duke
Arch-Count
Sir Falamar LaCrane