Register    Login    Forum    Search    Chat [0]    FAQ

Board index » Emerald Hills General Forums » Arts & Sciences




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:55 pm
Posts: 638
From the corpora:

1. The Regent shall choose the guildmasters of Arts and Sciences. Although
the guilds will vary, the following are examples:
a Arts - Art, Garbers, Literature, Minstrels, Theatre
b Science - Heraldry, Sages, Engineers, Gladiators, Smiths

I think they can roughtly categorized according to whether they are done aesthetically (art) versus by a process or formula (science, but Heraldry definitely straddles the line. The new rulebook however states:

e. Owl: Awarded for demonstrating ability in the construction sciences of Amtgard. Weapon construction, armor construction, furniture, shoes, belts, etc. A first level Order of the Owl could be awarded for constructing your first legal and functional sword. A tenth level Order of the Owl might be creating a full suit of decorated and articulated armor, or introducing critical new technologies and construction advancements that affect the group as a whole.
f. Dragon: Awarded for demonstrating ability in the arts of Amtgard. Performance, painting, sculpting, photography, cooking, banners, artistically focused garb, writing, acting, roleplaying, etc. A first level Order of the Dragon might be awarded for doing a good reading of a non-original poetry piece. A tenth level Order of the Dragon might be awarded for writing and directing an excellent play for entertainment at a large event.

That would seem to say that Owls are now strictly for construction, which would exclude "Sages" (whatever that is) and Heraldry (which would include blazoning, which is not construction, and actually making the design, that is, "banners" which are covered under the arts).

Which leads up to the big question: is cooking an art or a science? You can certainly "construct" a cake but it is not an artifact or process so much as the expression of a baker's skill.

And once issues are settled should we talk about ammending the description of the Guilds to align with the new rulebook?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:03 am
Posts: 373
um, not to say that isn't a well thought out arguement.
but i think everyone is over thinking it. i understand that some people like rules and black and white, but we live in a world of grey.

if ive learned anything about the Arts, its that they cross categories a lot. you can have your general rules and categories, but never forget to leave room for those that refuse to be defined by one thing; for those that combine disciplines.

_________________
member of Luna Lobos
I Otta B daughter of Alby
Girl Turtle of the Turtle Clan


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:55 pm
Posts: 638
I know, as a practical matter, as interim Regent, Duke, and Ducal Regent, I have been faced with trying to decide what award goes with what effort. I hope I haven't overthunk the issue; my aim is simply to think it. It may be of interest to people who have several Owls and Dragons and would like to make a concerted effort in one direction.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 854
Cooking is actually a lot of science. You combine ingredients ..a chemical reaction takes place and you get a cake or cookies or a souffle. It is also an art. The chef not only knows how to combine ingredients but how to present them in a pleasing manner for the consumer. A beautifully decorated cake would be an example or the presentation of Oriental meals.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:48 pm
Posts: 269
Awards would be based on the category they were entered. If you have entered the item based on recipe and taste, put that in the description on your card that you are shooting for flavor and taste. Likewise if you are doing it for decoration.

if it tastes good and looks bad, give it an owl.
if it tastes alright but looks amazing, give it a dragon.

_________________
Squire to Sir Everlast of Buttercup


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:29 pm
Posts: 166
Location: Fort Worth / Kings Point
Arts are like opinions... though many may agree, none can really be proven. What one person finds beautiful another may find bland.

Sciences work like facts. There are wrongs and there are rights. There's nothing left to interpretation. It works or it doesn't. These impress us through ingenuity, and results.

_________________
GMR of King's Point

Spoiler! :
Familiarity, the first myth of reality: What you know the best, you observe the least.
Devotion, the second myth of reality: The faithful are most hurt by the objects of their faith.
Conviction, the third myth of reality: Only those who seek the truth can be deceived.
Fellowship, the fourth myth of reality: As the tides of war shift, so do loyalties.
Trust, the fifth myth of reality: Every truth holds the seed of betrayal.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 854
"if it tastes good and looks bad, give it an owl.
if it tastes alright but looks amazing, give it a dragon."


Hmmm Connor ....cooking is under Dragon. unless you like the taste of foam, leather ect ;)
then you could put it under Owl. j/k
Under your descriptions it shouldn't score well anyways.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:29 pm
Posts: 166
Location: Fort Worth / Kings Point
Mmmm... foam and leather... could I get a side of glue?

_________________
GMR of King's Point

Spoiler! :
Familiarity, the first myth of reality: What you know the best, you observe the least.
Devotion, the second myth of reality: The faithful are most hurt by the objects of their faith.
Conviction, the third myth of reality: Only those who seek the truth can be deceived.
Fellowship, the fourth myth of reality: As the tides of war shift, so do loyalties.
Trust, the fifth myth of reality: Every truth holds the seed of betrayal.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:48 pm
Posts: 269
What if someone is going for awesome decoration on a plain vanilla cake? No science for decoration, just creativity which would then be art.

And if someone makes a pot of chili which pretty much looks like slop but has an excellent array of flavor due to correctly measured ingredients, it is a science, is it not?

_________________
Squire to Sir Everlast of Buttercup


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:05 am
Posts: 497
Location: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Art and Science are BOTH subjective. Each can have elements of both. Does it really matter? Im a blacksmith. This is a science involving metallurgy, heat, kinetics, and many other terms that can be deemed "science" but it also has an artistic flair to it. Something as simple as a nail can have a decorative head on it. The lowliest horseshoe can have an appealing aesthetic to it. So why have the debate over what is what...simply for an awards perspective?

I think the question should be, do we award a particular piece on its quality of construction or its aesthetic appeal? Like Connor's pot of chili...it can look like crap (pun intended) and still taste like heaven. Leave it up to the entrants desire. If I want a piece judged on aesthetics, then I say so in my description card. If on the other hand I want it judged by the quality of its construction, then I say so on my description card. Then the judges have more options..."well, the quality of construction of this piece is very well done. The stitches are all straight, there are no bunches..I don't particularly like how it looks...the color of this leather is horrendous, but, that's not what Im judging it on so my opinion about the color is irrelevant." This also makes decisions about whether a particular piece deserves an owl instead of a dragon...judged on construction quality or on aesthetic appeal...

Just my thoughts

_________________
Duke, Squire Docsi HardAnvil
aka the Mad Dwarf
GMR of Dreadmoor
Squire to Sir Logan T. Black
Clan Chieftain of the Turtle Clan
Ship's Surgeon, HMS "Turtle's Revenge"
Gaslight Sky Pirate

"Dwarves and mountains have one thing in common: It takes an almighty hammer and a tremendous amount of persistence to overcome them."


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:00 pm
Posts: 285
Well said Docsi.

_________________
Squire Eniad Norreh
Justicar -
Guardsman of Luna Lobos


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:36 am
Posts: 34
I agree with Dosci as well. But I don't understand all the discussion about cooking is it an art or science, based on the corpora it is an art.

As far as awards and judging, each entrant is to specify the category for each piece that is being entered. Each entry should be judged according the specified categories criteria.

_________________
Mistress Gryndll ap Gwenth
Sheriff Five Banners
Member of House Singollo


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:34 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Red Storm, Dreadmoor, EH
The difference between an art and a science.

Well, I see it as coming down to intent. It's like taking a drawing versus a diagram.

The drawing might not be precise in execution. Maybe the perspective is off a bit and the colors used aren't likely to appear in nature but the intent is to create something that someone else will appreciate for it's beauty.

A diagram will be precise in execution, will adhere to specific rules, such as scale, perspective and texture. Consideration for beauty is secondary at best.

The two resulting images might be of the exact same thing and seem to be all but identical to the "untrained eye". A drawing can be very precise and lifelike while a diagram can be a thing of true beauty.

When it comes to what items fall into what category, only the creator can truly say as they are the one's who can tell you in intent of the piece.

_________________
Lord Malran Singollo
Duke of Dreadmoor
Patriarch, House Singollo
Lettusio-Rex, Dreadmoor Fey Jackalope
Member of the House of H.O.P.S.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:48 pm
Posts: 269
I understand now. Judges should take the entire aspect of the entered piece and break it down into pieces. Food as an example.

Taste
Aroma
Appearance
Presentation

Chili with a seasoned aroma and spicy flavor on a cold day in a bread bowl would score higher than a fire hot chili in a styrofoam cup.

The item remains in the category to distinguish what award should be given if it indeed earned.

_________________
Squire to Sir Everlast of Buttercup


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:23 pm
Posts: 854
Bingo!! ;)


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » Emerald Hills General Forums » Arts & Sciences


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron