Full Minutes from:
http://www.electricsamurai.com/forums/v ... 26&t=27888Michael wrote:
Thanks to Scribe Kaads for keeping these Minutes.
Circle of Monarchs 2013 Meeting Minutes
Bill opened the meeting with a speech going over the Ombudsman proposal and the Amtgard Conduct proposal.
Bill recommended you speak with a lawyer about the specific state laws, for as an example, in some states, if you hear about a sexual assault, you have to go to the police immediately. The reason we want these rules, is not to kick people out, but to have more fun as a group.
Nesta asked if we should have one person looking into it or multiple people per kingdom.
Bill responded that we should have someone at each region, perhaps at a kingdom level, or multiple people in local levels. But it is a volunteer position so it can be hard to find.
Closing Statement: This is something that will be good for Amtgard. You can also do fundraisers for this, or ask the local newspaper to do a blurb, which they will likely do to fill up space in the newspaper. It’s recommended you call and talk to reporters. It’s good for keeping the game clean, and it is good for recruitment.
Randall brings out the responsibilities of the position is not an enforcer, but an investigator. They will give recommendations.
Grix asked how confidential it would be between an accused and the victim.
Randall said that the confidentiality tends in favor of the victim.
MHOG said that in terms of confidentiality, the victim is not always clear.
Randall asked for the CoM to look at the handout and brings up Goldcrest.
Goldcrest asked that the vote be for the program, not for the people in charge of the program. It’s not going to be set up overnight; it will take a long time to set up. A big part of it will be educating the leaders over the decisions that you make, and the repercussions thereof. Goldcrest asked for a 14 month process. He suggests a cellphone with a consistent number, sort of a ‘hotline’. Goldcrest said that he used to work for the key spouse program for the Air Force. He was a counselor for abuse victims from a military standpoint. Goldcrest said that he doesn’t want people who believe themselves to be saviors of Amtgard. They need to fill out positions with the people they want and clarify what the hiring process will be. They will need a couple of months to fill out a solid foundation.
Grix asked who the Ombudsman program is going to report to.
Randall said that they will report to the current interkingdom committee.
Brennon said that they would be working with the existing power structures. It wouldn’t sidestep it, but be an advisement program.
Marcus said he would not support it if it was a member of the current monarchy because of confidentiality.
Falamar asked that we have a confidential counselor at the kingdom level.
Grix said that it’s hard to prove that a person isn’t biased.
Falamar said that they are used to dealing with situations this position will help.
Bill said this would set up someone who is consistent and set up a group of people who are equally consistent.
Marcus said that the interkingdom group should make a recommendation for that person.
Michael said that Goldcrest doesn’t want to recommend someone from every kingdom. Goldcrest will just provide people with the information whom the kingdom recommends.
Goldcrest echoes what Michael said and that it needs to be something that people can turn to in confidence. The goal isn’t necessarily to force every kingdom to support it.
Kaads asked what if the accused is the monarch.
Michael replies that they would work up to the BOD or the CoM if that was the case.
Quynn asked about what situations the system will go through.
Michael predicts that a lot of minor issues will be immediately kicked back to the local monarchs.
Randall moves to a vote.
Vote for creation of the Ombudsman position:
RD: Y
DW: Y
GV: Y
DS: Y
RW: Y
NW: N
IM: Y
BS: Y
NL: Y
GP: Y
CG: Y
CK: Y
WL: Y
BL: Y
EH: Y
Passed, 14-1.
Second issue is appointment of Goldcrest.
Quynn asked if the limit is one term.
Michael said no.
Randall called for a vote.
Vote for appointment of Goldcrest to the Ombudsman Position
TD: Y
DW:Y
GV: Y
RW:Y
DS:Y
NW:Y
IM:Y
BS:Y
NL:Y
GP:Y
CG:Y
CK:Y
WL:Y
BL:Y
EH:Y
Passed, 15-0.
Second recommendation from Bill is the acceptable conduct rules.
Medryn said that he could roll the proposal should be put into 7.7.
Randall called for questions.
Trenton said that the line of sight rule may not be applicable in some areas of his kingdom.
Falamar asked if a temporary guardian can happen.
Michael said that it exists, a notarized guardianship form.
Brennon said that a guardianship form should be noted to exist in the proposal.
Randall adds that to the proposal.
Trenton doesn’t like that the monarch and PM/GMR can ban someone.
Randall said that this is already in the rulebook.
Wrenn said that the rulebook shouldn’t enforce that, and it should be up to the kingdom. Wrenn asked if the wording could change to suspension instead of ban.
Michael said that is fine, but keep in mind, the rulebook supercedes the corporas. But this proposal may contradict with some corporas.
Grix said there is an issue with people having power, worst case scenario is that those people are only in office for 6 months. It wouldn’t take an althing to reverse it, just the next monarch. We elect our officials to run our kingdoms.
Randall asked if there is any problems with adding the legal guardianship language.
Bill said that if it were up to him, he would not have people under 14 playing with adults. But, adding the guardianship form adds a lot to the proposal.
Medryn said he is an attorney in the state of Colorado. He is not amtgard’s legal representation, but there is a very simple form most states have that a parent can sign, that said that a person is a child’s legal guardian for a specific amount of time. Also, there is a requirement of an additional waiver. It’s not a waiver that gives up the ability to sue, which can’t happen. But the waiver does have to say that the possibility of danger and injury exists.
Michael said a reasonable amount of parents will not let their child play because of that.
Medryn advises most monarchs to not let people between 14-18 play without notarization.
Randall moves to a vote.
Vote for acceptance of the Amtgard Conduct Policy, and the inclusion into the 7.7 Rulebook
TD:Y
DW:Y
GV:Y
DS:Y
RW:Y
NW:A
IM:Y
BS:N
NL:Y
GP:Y
CG:Y
CK:Y
WL:Y
BL:Y
EH:Y
Passes, 13-1. (1 Abstain)
Randall brings up the question CK had that a post be put on E-Samurai for people who are banned and the reason. Randall said that the reason they are banned not really be on there because it of liability.
Brennon said that the reason they were banned needs to be posted, if not the general populace but for people in office.
Gabriel asked if there is a way to have a contact point instead, and have person to contact instead of a reason.
Sage asked if a reason can be given if the reason is public.
Randall said yes.
Wrenn said the last person who was banned was banned via althing, so it was publically known.
Brennon said that having a contact person is a concern because Amtgard as a group has a terrible long term memory.
Nesta suggests a private group visible by monarchs.
Medryn said that from a gossip standpoint, a sealed record is possible. But posting why a certain action was taken is generally not bad legally. But do not post a legal judgment if the person was not convicted. If someone punches a newbie, don’t say they committed “assault”, but that they punched a newbie.
Trenton asked that the PM should be the contact person.
Michael said that it’s obvious we can’t put legal crimes in there if the person that wasn’t convicted.
Medryn said that the general rule that a citizen has no obligation to report to the police unless in a certain position.
Randall said we can set something up on E-Samurai depending on what we want, but doesn’t want to defame person.
Medryn said it is only defamation if it isn’t true. Also, he understands Randall doesn’t want to get sued, but he won’t get sued for being a reporter.
Sponge a public forum and a private forum would be a good idea.
Brennon said that sometimes people are banned for something that might not have happened, but to cover us liability wise pending investigation, and asked how we would cover that.
Medryn said that having banning pending investigation/legal action would be fine. You don’t want to turn it into a gossip mill.
Quynn said sometimes people use legal jargon because they want to sound intelligent, and we want to stay away from that.
Falamar said that the BOD should handle legal action.
Michael said that a lot of the time a crime could be committed, no charges are pressed, but the kingdom still wants to ban the person.
Medryn said that you want to be more vague than ‘punching a newbie’, with examples such as ‘physical violence’ or ‘inappropriate convict’
Falamar said that once it goes to a legal situation it should go to the BOD.
Brennon said that we all agree a private registry would be a good idea.
Wrenn said that a permanent ban should be recorded, but a suspension shouldn’t.
Randall said that he’ll only post what you send him and calls for a vote.
Vote for creation of a permanent source of information on who is banned from Amtgard on E-Samurai
TD:Y
DW:Y
GV:Y
RW:Y
DS:Y
NW:Y
IM:Y
BS:Y
NL:Y
GP:Y
CK:Y
WL:Y
CG:Y
BL:Y
EH:Y
Passed, 15-0.
Westmarch presents bid.
Introductions are made.
Thanks are made for considering the proposal, and a lot of people have done a lot of hard work for the proposal. A lot of the people who wrote the corpora aren’t here.
Wavehaven was the original California land, it started in 1994 by Dragonspine. They still have a few of their first day members. They’ve had a lot of lands come up through the ranks. Their baronies are pretty old; there are 7 lands on their list. Hager’s Hall was recently promoted. Wavehaven is coming up on its 20th year. Darkshore, their event, had 120 people last year. Feast of Mars draws a lot of people too, and most of their out of kingdom people. It’s a Roman themed event. The handout has a breakdown of those two events.
Goldcrest visited Feast of Mars, and they have only seen their numbers increased. Westmarch hosted SKBC in King City, and it was a tremendously successful event despite the rain. It was the only one to make money.
Westmarch was formed in 2007, and was asked to run as if they were a kingdom by Dragonspine. They’ve been running themselves as they would like to continue running themselves, and have been doing that for 6 years.
The point in putting the bid together is to showcase the people who are in Westmarch. They have a passion for Amtgard, a passion for Westmarch, and a passion for the colors thereof. There are pictures of people having fun, having friendships, and a great time at their events. There are people in Westmarch who are great Amtgarders, and they want to show that to the rest of Amtgard this passion.
Sage said that the BLBOD has approved the paperwork.
Grix asked what Westmarch’s thoughts of V8.
A lot of people have a vendetta against V8, but a lot of people love it. 3 lands do it 100% of the time, and some lands do it once a month.
One of the statements Dragonspine said they only wanted to go through with the bid if they were doing a reasonable job with V8 testing.
Randall asked if there are any more questions. No questions.
Go to a vote.
Vote for the Kingdom of Westmarch
TD:Y
DW:Y
GV:Y
RW:Y
DS:Y
NW:Y
IM:Y
BS:Y
NL:Y
GP:Y
CG:Y
CK:Y
WL:Y
BL:Y
EH:Y
Passed, 15-0.
Westmarch is now a kingdom.
The monarch is invited to sit on the CoK.
Linden made a scroll and encourages all monarchs to sign.
Congratulations Westmarch!
Next: Executive committee reports; which include a V8 report from Brennon.
Brennon hands out a packet that has a test layout that will need a lot of work.
Brennon said if you start flipping through, a lot of areas bring emphasis to the ‘made easy sections’, which are graphically different, and made so for ease of isolating them and reading them.
For the last 30 years Amtgard hasn’t had a cohesive roleplaying environment. We shouldn’t all follow the same script, but there are guidelines that will explain things to new people. It’s not meant to be set in stone, but meant to give a guideline to the culture for new players.
Brennon said that going forward releases will be more frequent. You won’t just get documents, but a finished rulebook.
Kaads asked if Sev Sunfury’s re-edit will be used that puts a lot of abilities with the class.
Brennon said yes.
Round of applause for Grix for the layout.
Brennon said that most of the numbers are up around 80%. The approval rate of V8 is around 75%-77%. He’s very happy about where it is going and where it is at. Brennon said that there is bias to take the survey, by people who bothered to take the survey. The numbers are an enormous improvement from 2012.
Randall encourages people to read the letters at the end of the document.
One of the letters is read out loud from The Valley of Smoke by Medryn.
Brennon encourages everyone to read the rules on their own time. There’s a lot of people who think the rules are terrible until they play them.
Brennon said that obviously they aren’t going to come to a vote. They want to set a goal 6 months from now to have any issues come forward. They want to set up a situation where everyone is truly happy with V8 instead of an apathetic ‘it’s better than V7.7.’ They want to get a cohesive amount of feedback, to see if there is a commonality amongst them. It’s hard to correlate what between what the majority wants and not what the loudest person wants.
Michael recommends assigning it to the monarch/rules rep and not to the kingdom. If we assign it to the kingdom and not a specific person, he’s afraid the V8 crew won’t get feedback.
Francis asked if they want to know if it would pass or not today or not, and asked if the rules rep should be in charge and not the monarch.
Randall asked for actionable items to be presented cohesively and intelligently to the CoM, for the V8 crew to react to. The goal is if they can see an issue shared between kingdoms, that they can change the rulebook.
Michael asked if the rules rep is going to change within kingdoms.
Medryn said he is the rules rep organizer, and that if you change them, to get with him.
Randall asked that the Rules Rep does not change within the next 6 months,
Falamar said that the rules rep election takes place next week.
Randall and MHOG said that’s fine.
Randall brings it to a vote.
Vote for a system of Eliciting Feedback from Kingdoms on the Version 8 rules
TD:Y
DW:Y
GV:Y
RW:Y
DS:Y
NW:A
IM:Y
BS:Y
NL:Y
GP:Y
CG:Y
CK:Y
WL:Y
BL:Y
Passed, 14-0. (1 Abstain)
Westmarch doesn’t have a rules rep. Medryn said to appoint one and tell him.
Brennon doesn’t want to hold up feedback, and asked for feedback later.
Medryn said that if there things you hate about v8 now, you only have to convince the V8 crew to change it instead of 11 monarchs.
No more questions for the committee.
Kord said that they are very open to feedback, and they do make sure everything is discussed appropriately.
Michael breaks for lunch for 30 minutes.
Next issue is the ORK 3.0 presentation.
Michael is a strong technical paper with technical details, and is not a real user guide. MHOG and Megiddo have a different opinion on what the best way to rollout ORK 3.0 It is workable, effective, and has gotten through all of its testing and has been beta tested for 3 months. They’ve beat out a lot of bugs and it is an effective ORK and is a notable upgrade. The new ORK is a night and day. People are objects rather than people + parks. So that someone could play at a different park and still get credit. It’s a very plain interface but is powerful and a huge improvement.
Michael is going to talk about 2 options for implementation.
Francis asked how easy it is to transition the database from ORK 2 to ORK 3.
Response: It’s very easy, there were a few bugs initially but they were stomped out. The PM should spot check them.
Exar said that the PM should ask local PMs to print out a passport of existing records so that nothing can go away.
Michael said that Megiddo said that a training video with training sessions will roll it out within 3 months, and have it rolled out at leisure in the indefinite future.
Michael thinks that the only way to get people to use the new ORK is to get turn off the old ORK within the next 3 months. The new ORK is ready to go.
Trenton thinks to have a set time limit on things is the easiest way to do it, and to have a set day with lots of anticipation.
Francis said that it is very difficult for the kingdom PM to dictate to the local PMs this change. A lot of local PM’s are techinically challenged, and already feel ignorant about the current system.
Michael said that the only thing they are worried about is nebulous timelines.
Wrenn thinks that a two month/four month timelime would be good.
Brennon thinks that the new training videos are of any value and that we should change today.
Vote for a swift implementation, as something between tomorrow and a month from now.
Michael said the training videos are not done but will be soon.
Gabriel said that for people who are techinically challenged, there are lots of resources online and more than enough ample support.
Vote on a Swift Implementation of the ORK 3.0
TD:N
DW:Y
GV:Y
RW:Y
DS:Y
NW:A
IM:Y
BS:A
NL:Y
GP:Y
CG:Y
CK:Y
WL:Y
BL:Y
EH:Y
WM:Y
Passed, 12-1, 2 abstain.
Swift implementation passed.
Michael said we’ll find a training video in the next week.
Next issue is Web 3.0
Michael said the new website is live. The new website is amtgard.com, and it is better than dag or bel.
Brennon said a picture of the sword shown is hilariously illegal because the pommel is too small.
Michael gets back on track and said that he’ll get the picture changed. A content manager is already in place, so pictures can be changed easily. Any issues can be dealt with. One thing that we did want to add to it is a sword making video that’s good, but not hi-def, and we want to replace it with a hi-def version. That’s minor because the current version is usable. Anything that anyone sees that should go on there, get feedback, and let them know.
Last year people agreed to pay for the website, and to make us #1 if someone searches for Amtgard. The cost was $40 per kingdom.
On the issue of paying for it: The board doesn’t have to make the current monarchs agree to pay what the previous monarchs agreed to, but recommends that the current kingdoms pay for it; which can be done as early as right now.
This is not a majority vote, but each kingdom agrees and doesn’t agree. Each kingdom needs to agree or not agree, and approach Michael later.
This sort of project is the good for all of Amtgard, and it is the right thing to do to have all the kingdoms pay for it.
Sponge said that the website changes it’s display based on the size of the browser window it’s displayed on.
Brennon said they did a really nice advertising project earlier in the year that was donated for privately, and asked if something similar could be done here.
Michael said that having an advertising budget would be really nice.
Brennon said the budget would be closer to $1000-$2000 for advertising. It does make a big difference. There are no other larps that have an advertising budget at all.
Brennon agrees that PVP Online wasn’t the best choice, but an available choice.
Michael said that with a higher budget we can have more options for the best choice, not just an available choice.
Michael said that asking $120 per kingdom could be a little much, and some kingdoms may not be able to do that. Michael said there will be a large online discussion, and will ask for people to look at and participate at it, and to make their decision in a month.
Brennon said that hard data for the PVP online advertising will be posted.
Quynn, and Gabriel will be stepping down in a month’s time.
Wrenn said that he needs a budget because it will be for an althing.
Michael said they will.
Gabriel asked if this will be yearly.
Michael said that it will depend on how much it benefits us, and that they covered Amtgard Web Presence.
Next item: Brief report for the Dor Un Avathar from Medryn.
Last year’s CoM voted on the Dor 9. It is not v8 compatible in any way shape or form. So the Dor Un Avathar 10 will be V8 compatible. He would like to tell us that it will be able to be voted on next year. There will be some interesting changes on how to work it to make it V8 compatible. They are headed towards a more unified standard that keeps the goals of V8. Not much else to say.
Next item is a kingdom downgrade proposal.
Randall brought up that this was brought up this year. This does not give the CoM any additional power, but instead codifies how to bring this up. It would go to the CoM, the CoM would recommend it to the BoD.
Brennon said that the only group that has the power to downgrade the kingdom is the BLBOD, because they are terminating the contract. The CoM can only give recommendations.
Randall said that as an addition to the bylaws, it would require a 75% buy in.
Vote for system in which the Circle of Monarchs can recommend a Kingdom Downgrade to the BLBOD
TD:Y
DW:Y
GV:N
RW:Y
DS:Y
NW:N
IM:Y
BS:Y
NL:Y
GP:N
CG:Y
CK:Y
WL:Y
BL:N
EH:Y
11-4. Fails by 1 vote.
Randall would like to solicit feedback on how to change the proposal to make it better. Without the proposal it is a wild west scenario.
Randall would like to bring up a budget for the CoM, because the food and packets come out of pocket for the people running the meeting. Instead, the committee is asking for about $15 per kingdom. The expenses and budget would be absolutely transparent.
It is not an emergency, and they will accept an online vote.
Sage thanks for everyone to come to Clan. If anyone has any feedback on the site or the nature of the event, let them know. There are two things that are needed to run past everyone.
The site owner, Holly, is engaged with the group and happy, and has been pranking people. The site is religiously affiliated, and the site owners asked us to not leave empty bottles and cigarette butts lying around, because those things are usually not allowed on site. Sage asked that people remain aware of that because the site is great for Clan, unlike the last site that didn’t understand amtgard.
There was a lady that felt like she was in imminent danger of sexual assault. A lady was walking past a group of people who made comments and followed her around. This is an issue for us, and we should keep that in mind.
Michael moves to close to close this meeting. We got done in 3 hours not counting lunch.
_________________
Brennon wrote:
The V8 mindset is not about "what is the minimum I can get away with doing" but rather "how can we all use these rules fairly so the game runs smoothly and we all have a good time."
