The Kingdom of the Emerald Hills

Patience is a virtue, yes, but so is courtesy. When questions are met with rudeness and/or accusations of personal vendetta, it is hard to believe that the autocrats are genuinely concerned with making this year's Banner Wars an enjoyable event. And since I'm not in charge of anything, I have no intention of coming to Banner Wars if it doesn't look like I'll enjoy myself.

If I am being asked to respect the autocrat team enough to give them a chance to post revised rules and not give up on the event right now, I will in turn ask that the autocrat team respect the populace enough to keep their posts civil, and to do more than pay occasional lip service to the notion that questions and concerns are in fact being taken into account.

I hate people just as much as the next Amtgarder, but I knew better than to make that obvious when the broccoli were asked to run WBW4. For all intents and purposes, I had to treat the event like a fundraiser, or a business, and you don't grow either by alienating your potential customer base.

C'est tout.

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"And in the end, we decide if we're remembered for what happened to us or for what we did with it."
~ R. K. Milholland

One point of concern about waiting a prolonged period of time for final revisions is the amount of planning and preparation that the competitive teams put into this tournament.

Months of work go into having the right armor and gear for the scenario. Not to mention the arrangements of transporting your team from around the country. Both things take time and resources to accomplish.

If we gear for a low armor rules-set and have to change to a more intensive front line at the last minute, we have wasted time, resources and cash.

If we opt for a slow enchantment heavy magic line-up and have to switch to our more mobile casters, we have wasted time and cash purchasing the wrong tickets.

Whatever format is going to be used, needs to be decided (for better or worse) soon. With the possibility of the rules be “adjusted” the prep time allowed for this years event is already less than for any other (with the possible exception of the first one).

I would ask that whatever decisions need to be made, are done so in a prompt manner. If the participants don’t like what is decided, then they can exercise their option to do something else that weekend. We are past the time for rough drafts, those players that need to plan their vacations, travel and gear in order to support our event deserve a final publicized report of what can be expected. If people are not happy with the product, they don’t have to buy it.


Sir Sparhawk Kingfisher

Gee Sparhawk - Do you honestly think they will come out with the rules last minute?

And I understand the making of the armor and all that, and I am sure as hell they do - let me see if I can't talk them into getting the rules out premature just for you

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Anthea Starfyre
anthea@darkemerald.org
BLOG: http://www.everythingmagical.net/diary/

What a bunch of whiners. Sparhawk the armor thing isn't going to change at any point. And k'tai do you fight? and if not what differance does the war make to you on if you will come out or not? and if so then have a high than thou attitude tends to bring out the ass in me and you know it. And your idea of civil IS,HAS AND WILL NEVER BE THE SAME OF MY IDEA OF CIVIL.

All the way thru this I have an are making comprizes. Is this not good enough? Well I say it is going to have to be. Give the wheel time to work!
Things and peoples scheduals don't allways work out the way they are suppost to but they will come togather. We have six months. The ship battle its self is not on the neg table and will not be changed. The monsters are in question and a few other small thing that will not make a huge differance.

Calm yourselves

Granted I have been guilty of flameing even in the recent past but as an after thought, the following post occured to me as a more logical approach

As posted on the e-sam forum:

Look the reason I got onto this list is so I could vote on the WBW poll and voice my opinion. And I have found some long lost friends and some could have stayed lost enemies. Along the way I have heard a lot of opinions about the WBW and it's rules. This is not a problem. But why is it when a person states an opinion away from the masses he is flamed, or an attempt is made to make him look like an ass, by either throwing up his past or what certain people think about the person in question? We all have the right to speak our minds without our past or opinions of our character being thrown in our face. Not to mention half of the opinions or so called facts of said individual are incorrect at best. And I am not just speaking for myself. I find this behavior to be unfair to all involved on both sides of the fence. I know for a fact that the opinions of the rules are being noted and are trying to be dealt with for everyones enjoyment, safety, and pleasure. Reguardless of the mass flaming and or opinions everyone seems to be instilling against it's writers. Why would an individual or a group of individuals want to boycott an event is beyond me. The only thing that is being hurt by that mentality is the game itself. The vary thing we all fight so passionatly and valiently for.
So wouldn't it make more since to stop all the bickering about the rules, and start enjoying the game even though you don't control or agree with all the rules? Supposedly people are allowed to have an opinion on this site, though I have seen little proof of that. Sure there are a lot of opinions going out, but there still seems to be to much animosity in the ranks for any thing to actually get worked out in this manner. Now I realize that a lot of people think I am the last person in this game or the world for that matter to point this out, and some of you may be correct. But I feel it needs to be said, so I am going to do it anyways. What I think is that we should forget about the lines drawn in the sand. Forget who is good and who is evil as those fronts have been more then established. Forget the egos as they are not doing this particular situation any justice what so ever. The question boils down to this: Is this what is good for the game? No, I think not.
What kind of message are we sending to possible autocrats and war-o-crats of the future? To me it seems we are telling them that we like the same old stale, stagnant stuff and fresh ideas are not allowed and will be ostrasized immediatly. To me it seems not everyone has the same opinion of what this game or a fanatsy realm is all about. And that is probably the only thing we can all agree on. Sad when you think about isn,t it? But that is what it has boiled to in my honest opinion.
Now my ideal solution would be to set down and talk this out like adults if that is possible. Lets all stop the shit slinging as we are not a bunch of ignorant monkeys. Without the ability to communicate none of us are getting any thing solved other than looking like a bunch of total backbiting teenage girls who are to involved with a bunch of he said she said rumors. And to top it all off these rumors are mostly unfounded and unable to be proved, as if it matters anyways. So lets take a stance and dare to be differant and try to be respectful to one another reguardless of title, persona, or past. Granted I am not the smartest person in the world And don't even feel I should be the one saying this. But this seems like the most intelligent and logical avenue to solving this issue to me. I know I am nobody important in fact just a Squire that is wondering when chivalry will prevail? For that matter when will comman sence prevail? This is not a "can we all get along speech", But a "when will the madness stop speech".
Now I realize this post will probably be flamed and tore apart but I will not respond to derogatory comments with more derogatory comments as it solves nothing and looks quite pathetic.

In service to the GAME
Squire Fytakin Killzmany

War-o-crat,


A few questions for the war-o-crat:

• Where are ladders located at on the boats that allow you to get out of the water?
• If you use a monster that cast magic, do they count against you caster allotment?
• Do the teams start out anywhere in the Aft-castle?
• Can you shoot and/or cast magic through the “no play” prow of the ships?
• Is there a time limit on the matches and if so how is a victor decided?


To add to the previous list…

• Are the flags movable or stationary? i.e. do you carry the flag from your ship the opponents or raise the flag that is already at the other ship?
• If the flags are mobile, can they be taken into the water or in flight?
• Can you walk onto ANY ladder?
• Is there a date set for “final revisions” or are any revisions expected?
• Is there a set spot that siege engines have to be mounted in the aft castle? And if so where?

And a few more…

•Are teams required to provide a set number of reeves?
•If play stagnates, is there a process to reset and if so what?
•Who will be rating armor for the main battle and can we get it rated before the event?
•Must all reeves be 7.0 edition kingdom level reeve qualified?

Thank you for your time,
Sir Sparhawk Kingfisher ->--- Justicar ---<-

Just keep asking those questions. I will get to them

And what if the question is made with rudeness and/or personal vendetta? Or lack of courtesy?
Since the few that have asked exactly those types of questions and made those kinds of statements have been the only ones addressed in like kind. Excuse me here K’tai, me being one who deals with these few people on a different level who have got the quick glove across the face I have a better idea of who’s doing what and why they are doing it.

How about those who lie about you in their posts?? Should they be addressed with “oh that’s a very valid statement” or “WTF are you trying to pull here skippy!, take that shite don’t the f’k road son” If someone’s getting my glove print on their lil cheek then 99.9% of the time they have warranted it with some sort of action/statement. But you might understand and recognize it better if you understood more about certain individuals and the mind games they like to play. If I genuinely and unjustly wrong someone I apologize but so far concerning BW I have not period but I did make amends with Eclipse a couple of time but we keep slapping each other around some here and there and that’s fine because we can again both be civil to each other and such is the Corsair way “we like it ruff”
I like Falamar will never have the same opinion of what is civil as you since you tend to be on the (no offence) “carebear” side and often appear to wear your feeling on you sleeve and get your feeling hurt easily. While I’m more of the “don’t try and pull that crap with me” and can laugh about one calling me one of the dirtiest names you can think of. But such is the diversity of people and attitude, we each have different aspects and areas we excel at or suited better for. Like one would probably be better suited as a politician willing to bend the truth to serve your agenda and I would be a good judge so to speak since I’m going/willing to examine one and sniff out what’s BS and what’s not and then make the hard choice and sentence someone to death or just enough to not be so harsh if one does not deserve death but life imprisonment.

And for the record your sentiment that seems to insinuate that possibly I hate people as you appear to do does not sit well with me as I genuinely don’t hate anyone, I just don’t put up with crap from those who offer crap. I have a mindset that allows me to separate a person from the persons action ie I don’t like what your doing, don’t do it again please. I find it allows me to live a happier life than one who would fester genuine hate of someone and loathe them. Now Falamar, I think he’s a hater like you appear to claim to be.

Now I would ask you, do you understand me a little better now K’tai, did my reply help your concerns/judgment? Was I polite enough or too straight forward and direct?

Here's my argument to the rules...deal with them as you will.

Many people worked hard on the rules, I understand this.

However many more people are seeing this go in a direction very few are copasetic with.

I have spoken with over 50 players (half from eh, half from outside - not including my own company or the corsairs to keep the simple statistics very clear so no one rakes me for using biased demographics.)

<<$$$ FOR MONSTERS>>
It is blatantly obvious that most of those attending the event are decidedly NOT keen on any form of game aspect that requires them to pay more $$$ for an advantage in the tourney.

The argument that this is a fundraiser is not viable. The Autocrat has pretty much made sure that virtually all costs of the event will not hit the kingdom immediately if at all for this event...this in itself is ABSOLUTELY AWESOME.

However, with this in mind offering power monsters for $$$ is in no manner in keeping with any fundraiser I have experienced within Amtgard in the near 2 decades I have been in the game. This goes far beyond the "fear of change" factor. This is quite simply the long standing principle that the game mechanics are not reliant on anyone's financial ability. We've NEVER offered anything offering any advantage whatsoever for $$$...and I am not alone in saying that I sincerely disagree with this WBW option.

<<MONSTERS IN WORLD BANNER WARS>>
To a lesser degree, all but three of the 50 polled were also unhappy with the use of monsters at all in the tourney. While this isn’t on my serious hit list, I do find some serious problems currently with the use of monsters in WBW.

A> The monsters currently offered in the tourney are out-of-date, and have long since been ruled as invalid for use with 7.0 rules.

Considering we are in fact running from 7.0 exclusively, the use of invalid monsters is not exactly a good precedent. Get the rules lawyers to get a list of feasible monsters, or better, don’t use them.

B> Monsters as a rule, are only used for quests, not for tourneys.

Considering I am a 6th level monster with or without the WBW rules, I can honestly say that the use of them in tourney is a sore imbalance, and allows people to play classes and levels for which they have not earned the ability to do so. I am not trying to be elitist here, but a 6th level warrior does NOT make a 6th level monster. This aspect needs some serious discussion. Most monsters of first level are easily equal to 2 play classes of equal value, and that’s just the standard, the ratio increases heavily if the person in question is competent.

C> Too Many possibilities in the rules...

Even with the assistance of the rules lawyers, I think the including of monsters in the tourney is going to affect the time taken for each engagement very adversely. Reeves are most certainly going to find themselves overwhelmed with clarifications. Not enough people are going to have enough information about the monsters to give everyone else the time to know before asking during the tourney...that simple.

Tony

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[align=center]Sirrakhis Larethian of the Emerald Hills
G R E E N D R A G O N S
House Larethian-Got Newbs?[/align]

Do we think we can take a break from the whining and crying over the monsters for a bit? Jesus A Christ???? None of this crap is going to change my mind....none of it......
When I have my little meeting this weekend a desicion will be made concerning it.

Now Tony....you know this...we talked over the phone and agreed on several points...... let the wheel turn GD it!

If you are just wanting to argue with Tim then argue over the taste of pudding.......

But trying to argue a point that we have allready discused and have put into motion for a reasonable solution to the question, is just trying to instagate trouble. Leave it be untill I can get my crew togather to talk about it.

I got to tell you, spite is knocking at the door but reason is keeping it at bay....calm the hell down plz

Falamar,

I would like to thank you for keeping it clean.

Of course I will wait...just not forever.

I was getting spammed so much crap on the list that i honestly didnt feel that what I was concerned about was even being looked at (not referring to you, just the illustious autocrat). Anyhow, please let me know.

Thanks bro.

Tony

Its a damn freaky day that Falamar walks up and makes out to be the calm voice of reason.

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[align=center]Sirrakhis Larethian of the Emerald Hills
G R E E N D R A G O N S
House Larethian-Got Newbs?[/align]

Well if you would quit openly attacking people maybe you would be taken seriously more often. And please don't bother to flame me as i am not interrested in your hypocritic bantor. And will not respond, as do not want to fill up the list with more shit flinging.


you use to be really cool what happened?

Tony, this is your 3rd post here I believe.
The first post included a lie plain and simple and one that was slanderous in nature and helped to promote yet again more useless unwarranted drama for us all,, but at that point you could have said…

“since the Crats for this event have resorted to somewhat badmouthing Brennon, Eclipse, Glen and Feral for offering any kind of criticism of the tourney rules, however I think they jumped the gun a bit and made a huge drama out of it since the Crats had been open, respectful and polite and entertained any logical and respectful input and suggestions from anyone. And Feral, that was rather rude of you to offer linking the BW theme with the Olympiad theme and then blew the Autocrat off by never replying, If you had intended on not seeing it through, then you really should have said so much sooner since on March 7 D’Okynn posted this publicly on the EH list in reply to your offer.

D'Okynn wrote: March 07, 2006 Just FYI, me and Falamar are meeting at Delphos's house this week to talk over the war and ideas, also ideas about bridging it to Olympiad. If you have any ideas or what not you can email me or my cell is 469-826-2270, home 214-823-XXXX

And Feral,you never followed through.. You took the time to berate, slander and lie about him plenty of times…so I know you had the time. After all he was polite and respected your concerns
Feral the Autocrat waited for your input and delayed the planning until shortly after he sent you this private email on March 23.

Feral wrote: March 23, 2006 I should be seeing my War-O-Crat tonight or tomorrow evening. I'll email back to you asap after that.

And even then you never emailed back…that was kinda fucked up don’t you think Feral?
After all that’s over 2 weeks they waited for your input and Sparhawk has been waiting.
Badmouthing Brennon I can understand after all the things Brennon has said to the Autocrat. Maybe Brennon, you should refrain from addressing D’Okynn or try and clear the air with him at least. There are plenty of other people who could have handled any legitimate concerns you have. And Eclipse don’t you have the Autocrats phone numbers? Maybe just maybe you should have called them instead of making a public rant of it, they are you friends and Company members are they not?...just a thought”
And Glen…..well Glen has also bashed the Autocrat on E-SAM some, not about BW but bashed him none the less.

Instead of………….
“since the Crats for this event have resorted to heavily badmouthing almost everyone offering any kind of criticism of the tourney rules.”

But I could have settled for….
“since the Crats for this event have resorted to somewhat badmouthing Brennon, Eclipse and Feral for offering any kind of criticism of the tourney rules, however I think they jumped the gun a bit and made a huge drama out of it since the Crats had been open, respectful and polite and entertained any logical and respectful input and suggestions from anyone.”
Or something along those lines.
My versions would have at least been truthful……..

I had no problems at all with your second post, I read it and took it under advisement and after taking the time to hear from the people I will leave the $$$ aspect out of the war.

And my opinion after hearing the people I may suggest to Falamar to pick only 3 monsters that are fair matches and offer those to choose from if he decides to use them that is. But I also don’t mind scrapping the monsters at this point since some have whined excessively about it although a great many people think is a fun idea.
I may try to put together and sponsor an event next year sometime heavily involving monsters to honor this part of Amtgard and encourage people to get more familiar with them by playing them. At least at that point people should have some more time to familiarize themselves with them if they are even ironed out by then.

Now to your third post, is that a jab at me? Why yes it is!
“not referring to you, just the illustious autocrat”
So I guess you don’t think me worthy of an apology for lying? If not, then remember it is the tone you set and if you keep it up we will cross and it may cause more drama. I will overlook it for now in the interest of good will.

Thanks. It saves the trouble of an althing to correct the issue.

I think I'm meeting with Falamar on Friday to work out a couple loop-holes and rough edges. Hopefully after that we can get finalized rules up so people can make definite plans.

I don't think it was the monster themselves most people were having a problem with (well, maybe merfolk). It was the cash option. If you want to include monsters without the cash option, then do so. Some people will still complain, but it will be far fewer.

So long as they've been updated to 7.0 rules then there shouldn't be a problem. People will have over 5 months to get familiar with the possible monsters and work out stratagies to use them or defeat them as needed.

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A person is smart. People are stupid, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it. - Agent K.