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 Post subject: Arrows
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:27 am
Posts: 11
Location: Allen
Hi, I'm a new guy who is going to come out and try amtgard for the first time saturday with the MS folks.

I figured since I already had a bow (I don't know the draw strength but the guy at the archery shop said its 20 tops) and arrows I would convert some arrows to being strike legal.

I have the cloth coverings, but what is the best way to add the extra cm or so to make it the size of a penny and pad it? I was thinking just camp foam glued together and maybe a small amount of poly-fill, but I wasn't sure if glue would mess up the paddings ability to absorb the energy without hurting someone.


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 Post subject: Re: Arrows
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Posts: 7
Hot glue works really well with camp foam. Or you can use packing tape. I recommend Duck brand HD Clear. It holds really well but doesn't add a whole lot of weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Arrows
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:43 pm
Posts: 105
Not easy. Not quick. Wait to talk to your champion. He or she may have a tutorial they can recommend, or connect you with someone that sells arrows. Someone may be willing to show you how. Arrow tech is serious business, and arrows are judged more critically than any other weapon. Try something new on your own, and watch the champion say "not safe". Maybe there is a chance of your design being good enough. Do you know how to make it aerodynamic and balanced? Don't waste your time. Seek guidance.


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 Post subject: Re: Arrows
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:58 pm 
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Location: Allen
Voshe wrote:
Not easy. Not quick. Wait to talk to your champion. He or she may have a tutorial they can recommend, or connect you with someone that sells arrows. Someone may be willing to show you how. Arrow tech is serious business, and arrows are judged more critically than any other weapon. Try something new on your own, and watch the champion say "not safe". Maybe there is a chance of your design being good enough. Do you know how to make it aerodynamic and balanced? Don't waste your time. Seek guidance.


Isn't that what my post was, me seeking guidance?


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 Post subject: Re: Arrows
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Location: Allen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWrzMpiKkAg

This looks like a good tutorial (other than the fact his arrow appears to only have one fletching), it seems to follow the rules in the book. The only thing that worries me watching it is the amount of tape he uses on top of the mean green foam.


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 Post subject: Re: Arrows
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:43 pm
Posts: 105
Not trying to be judgmental or critical. I've held the office of champion enough to see a lot of newbe constructions. I've had to toss several tries from several people. That look of disappointment on a new members face is the last thing I want to see. All that work wasted. Enthusiasm crushed. But toss them I will, for it is the safety of my friends that is at stake. I've seen arrow tips that were nothing more than bubblewrap in a sock. No attempt at a blunt for the tip. No kidding.
Champions will vary. Some are super critical, and if it isn't made like others they're familiar with, they toss it. Other champions will let just about anything pass. I'm saying that it would be wise for a new player to speak to their champion before starting with arrows.
Depending on a personal inspection, I would probably pass the arrow from the vid. That doesn't mean that your champion will. It wouldn't make a very accurate arrow, especially at long range.


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 Post subject: Re: Arrows
 Post Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:30 pm 
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I would like to amend my previous post. Had some local newbe archery enthusiasts asking for guidance on arrows. They were daunted by the design I use. Foams to be ordered over the internet, glueing & waiting around for set and cure. They wanted arrows rite away with locally sourced materials. Having reviewed the previously posted video tutorial linked above, I recommended it. They made the safety heads, continue to use them and they passed inspection. As I suspected, not the most accurate at greater range, but it was what they wanted and it was good enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Arrows
 Post Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:05 am
Posts: 497
Location: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Safety in arrow construction is definately the most important aspect. I saw a set of arrows this past weekend at Knoblander that used 2 1/2 inch washers...they were nice and soft up front, but a deflected shot caused them to slide against someone's cheek with nothing but tape between the washer and the persons face. Scraped him up pretty good and could very easily have caused great damage. Saw Sir Forest get shot in the eye with a legal arrow...hit him hard and will probably give him a bruise. Even legal arrows can hurt people. I can't imagine what would have happened if Forest had been hit in the eye with an poorly made or illegal arrow. Always, always check your arrows before you fire them. In the heat of battle you may pick up someone else's arrow and you don't want the be the one who hurt another player with your shot. It will slow your shot some, but always check the head before you shoot it. Safety first equals more fun later.

_________________
Duke, Squire Docsi HardAnvil
aka the Mad Dwarf
GMR of Dreadmoor
Squire to Sir Logan T. Black
Clan Chieftain of the Turtle Clan
Ship's Surgeon, HMS "Turtle's Revenge"
Gaslight Sky Pirate

"Dwarves and mountains have one thing in common: It takes an almighty hammer and a tremendous amount of persistence to overcome them."


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 Post subject: Re: Arrows
 Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:34 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Red Storm, Dreadmoor, EH
First off, I always like it when people want to make their own stuff. Too often, I've seen people borrow gear seemingly forever before almost having to be forced to actually make some basic equipment. I applaud your initiative.

second, the best way to learn how to build something like an arrow is to speak to someone in person who has done it. There are sometimes nuances that can only be understood with two way communication. Stating that, I'm going to give you a basic walk through on how I build arrows.

supplies you will need:

an arrow (preferably more than one but work with what you have.) I prefer the ones with the threaded ends that can take a variety of tips.

screws that will fit into the ends of the arrows. The reason I don't give a size for these screws is that, depending on the maker of the arrows you have, the size of the screw may be slightly different. I suggest taking your arrow to a hardware store and trying a few screws from their bulk screws. I tend to buy only the number that I'm going to need instead of a whole box as most screws cost about 10 cents each.

Fender washers. These are flat washers that are typically used in sheet metal applications. Get ones that have a smaller center hole that won't slide down the shaft of your arrow. I usually get either 1/4 inch or, if I have to 1/2 inch fender washers. They are about the size of a quarter.

Tennis yard Balls These can be found as most sporting goods stores, such as Academy. They come in packages of three and are usually found in the same area as nerf balls and the like. Don't use Nerf balls as these don't have the density that you want.

Strapping tape
This is the tape with the fibers running through it. If you can't find any, you can use electrical or packing tape but those don't tend to hold quite a well.

A sock (or 12) Socks are the easiest and most common covers for beginning arrows. You can use purpose sewn covers if you really want to. Don't use panty hose as the material just doesn't hold up that well.

2-2 1/2 inch circles of camp mat You can go larger if you want but 2 1/2 inches is the smallest you can really go with this.

Rubber cement

Equipment needed:

Utility knife
Electric drill
scissors
bandages this one is sort of a joke but better safe than sorry.

Start by cutting your yard ball in half. Try to keep the two halves as equal as you possibly can and the cut as strait as you can make it. Drill a hole in the center of one half of your yard ball. try to make this hole as perpendicular to the cut as you can. place the drilled half of the yard ball on the shaft of your arrow. attack the fender washer to the end of the arrow using the screw, tightening it down as tightly as possible without stripping out the arrow itself. pull the half of the ball flush against the fender washer. Apply rubber cement to the two round pieces of camp mat and put them together. Apply rubber cement to half of yard ball not on arrow shaft and attack to one side of the circles of camp mat. Apply rubber cement to yard ball on arrow and attack composite arrow tip (other half of yard ball attacked to camp mate circles) to ball so that the fender washer is sandwiched between the lower camp mat and the yard ball on the shaft. Apply two to three pieces of strapping tap so that they overlap at "point" of arrow and extend down so that about 2 inches lie along the shaft of the arrow. Don't pull this tape tight, you don't want to compress the arrow head with the tape. Carefully clip the tape so that the piece along the shaft of the arrow is attached by a piece no wider than the arrow itself. carefully wrap the resulting flaps around the arrow shaft. You don't want to try this all at once. take the first piece of tape, clip the part near the arrow shaft, wrap. go over the top of the arrowhead, and do the same with the other end of the tape. Repeat once or twice more so that you have multiple layers of strapping tape helping to hold your arrow in place.

Lastly, take the sock you have a pull it over the arrowhead so that the toe fits snuggly against the arrowhead. run a piece of tap around the arrow shaft just below the arrowhead to secure the sock in place and cut away the excess. It's a good idea to put your initials and a number on the tip of your new arrow so that you can easily identify it at park.

If you follow these directions you should have a pretty serviceable arrow. I've used mine all over the kingdom and had no complaints with them yet. Of course, your local champion is the final arbiter on if the arrows go on the field or not so check with them when you build one to see if they will allow them.

Have fun.

_________________
Lord Malran Singollo
Duke of Dreadmoor
Patriarch, House Singollo
Lettusio-Rex, Dreadmoor Fey Jackalope
Member of the House of H.O.P.S.


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 Post subject: Re: Arrows
 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:37 am
Posts: 19
Malran wrote:
First off, I always like it when people want to make their own stuff. Too often, I've seen people borrow gear seemingly forever before almost having to be forced to actually make some basic equipment. I applaud your initiative.

second, the best way to learn how to build something like an arrow is to speak to someone in person who has done it. There are sometimes nuances that can only be understood with two way communication. Stating that, I'm going to give you a basic walk through on how I build arrows.

supplies you will need:

an arrow (preferably more than one but work with what you have.) I prefer the ones with the threaded ends that can take a variety of tips.

screws that will fit into the ends of the arrows. The reason I don't give a size for these screws is that, depending on the maker of the arrows you have, the size of the screw may be slightly different. I suggest taking your arrow to a hardware store and trying a few screws from their bulk screws. I tend to buy only the number that I'm going to need instead of a whole box as most screws cost about 10 cents each.

Fender washers. These are flat washers that are typically used in sheet metal applications. Get ones that have a smaller center hole that won't slide down the shaft of your arrow. I usually get either 1/4 inch or, if I have to 1/2 inch fender washers. They are about the size of a quarter.

Tennis yard Balls These can be found as most sporting goods stores, such as Academy. They come in packages of three and are usually found in the same area as nerf balls and the like. Don't use Nerf balls as these don't have the density that you want.

Strapping tape
This is the tape with the fibers running through it. If you can't find any, you can use electrical or packing tape but those don't tend to hold quite a well.

A sock (or 12) Socks are the easiest and most common covers for beginning arrows. You can use purpose sewn covers if you really want to. Don't use panty hose as the material just doesn't hold up that well.

2-2 1/2 inch circles of camp mat You can go larger if you want but 2 1/2 inches is the smallest you can really go with this.

Rubber cement

Equipment needed:

Utility knife
Electric drill
scissors
bandages this one is sort of a joke but better safe than sorry.

Start by cutting your yard ball in half. Try to keep the two halves as equal as you possibly can and the cut as strait as you can make it. Drill a hole in the center of one half of your yard ball. try to make this hole as perpendicular to the cut as you can. place the drilled half of the yard ball on the shaft of your arrow. attack the fender washer to the end of the arrow using the screw, tightening it down as tightly as possible without stripping out the arrow itself. pull the half of the ball flush against the fender washer. Apply rubber cement to the two round pieces of camp mat and put them together. Apply rubber cement to half of yard ball not on arrow shaft and attack to one side of the circles of camp mat. Apply rubber cement to yard ball on arrow and attack composite arrow tip (other half of yard ball attacked to camp mate circles) to ball so that the fender washer is sandwiched between the lower camp mat and the yard ball on the shaft. Apply two to three pieces of strapping tap so that they overlap at "point" of arrow and extend down so that about 2 inches lie along the shaft of the arrow. Don't pull this tape tight, you don't want to compress the arrow head with the tape. Carefully clip the tape so that the piece along the shaft of the arrow is attached by a piece no wider than the arrow itself. carefully wrap the resulting flaps around the arrow shaft. You don't want to try this all at once. take the first piece of tape, clip the part near the arrow shaft, wrap. go over the top of the arrowhead, and do the same with the other end of the tape. Repeat once or twice more so that you have multiple layers of strapping tape helping to hold your arrow in place.

Lastly, take the sock you have a pull it over the arrowhead so that the toe fits snuggly against the arrowhead. run a piece of tap around the arrow shaft just below the arrowhead to secure the sock in place and cut away the excess. It's a good idea to put your initials and a number on the tip of your new arrow so that you can easily identify it at park.

If you follow these directions you should have a pretty serviceable arrow. I've used mine all over the kingdom and had no complaints with them yet. Of course, your local champion is the final arbiter on if the arrows go on the field or not so check with them when you build one to see if they will allow them.

Have fun.


I make my arrows in a very similar manner, however... I don't see a half yard ball (I'm assuming you're talking about the Franklin Foam Tennis Balls) providing a very secure base against the shaft. Big reason I switched techs from the layered camp pad base was that same reason. I got better results with some of the good pool noodle (trimmed and torqued to the shaft), when it was still readily available, for a little while, but eventually moved up for the same concerns (also heard a couple horror stories of blow out for when the bases do fail.).

Since, I've been using spare shield foam for the base, and replaced the camp pad layer over the washer with a layer of the same, and topping that with the half yard ball for cushioning. Drill the hole for the shaft through the base foam just like you would with the yard ball base.

Make sure everything is adhered solidly, and make with the strapping tape.

...

Also... here's the link to the Fitz tutorial. Because it pretty much the same thing, only with penny blunts instead of a washer/screw core...

http://www.calistonarmory.com/index.php ... ew/846/66/

_________________
Lif er draumr. All draumr lúka
Life is a dream. All dreams end.


Though all I see is corrupted, and all I touch crumbles like ash... Though the world may be dead, the light of my god will nourish and His shadow will revive, for my faith is beyond breaking, and guides me towards the moment I wake from this Dream.


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