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Re: including the time taken to create?
https://amtgard-eh.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=7804		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Aylin_Karyn [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: including the time taken to create?
DarkTigger wrote:
ENTRY ELIGIBILITY
• YOU MUST HAVE A WRITE-UP OF EACH ENTRY. The write up must include how many cultural awards you have received in the past; an approximate time to finish the entry; materials used; short summary of the process used to create; and you may include any notes about the item you feel may enhance it. Special situations MAY be reviewed.


What is up with including the time taken to finish an entry? Why the heck does it matter? I don't set a timer or ever look at a clock when I'm working on things; do judges really want me to pull a completely random number out of my ass for this?

--Tigger-- I'm splitting this discussion into a different thread for both ease of reading and to help keep the various topics organized.
Author:  Dark Tigger [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon Master XXXII: Reign V
Aylin_Karyn wrote:
What is up with including the time taken to finish an entry? Why the heck does it matter? I don't set a timer or ever look at a clock when I'm working on things; do judges really want me to pull a completely random number out of my ass for this?


Personally, I agree.

There has been a consensus most of the Amtgard A&S facebook groups that this should be included. Also, it was part of the requirements for Olympiad entries less than 2 months ago. People had six months to complain about it for Olympiad and didn't.

I will point out that when I judge (as well as several of the people in this kingdom that I discuss judging ideas with), I ignore the "time taken to complete an entry" and the "how many awards you have" entirely. As Regent I will pay attention to the number of awards. If the judges want to know, it will be there for them.

I ran for office stating that I would be going back to a more traditional format for Dragon Master. I have been reviewing the posted categories all the way back to when Blaise was Regent (Spring of 2006). I eventually decided to go with Blaise's list because it came down to her list or Aylin's list, as Aylin is highly active in A&S right now and Blaise isn't... it seemed the logical choice.
Author:  Forest Evergreen [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Photography
Just to add my 2 cents. I think that write-ups are nice, but should not be manditory. Some items benefit from a bit of extra background knowledge, but in some cases it is not necessary.

Also, I do not think the judges should know how many awards you have or how long an item took to create.
For the awards, judges are human and can be influenced by that information (i.e. Bumping up a score because the player was new and had few or no awards in that category, or marking an experienced artisan down because "they should know better").
As for time, I think it is irrelevant. How fast or slow I am at creating the item has no bearing on whether or not it is of high or low quality. Wallflower, Ominique, Wickett, etc. are AMAZING garb makers. The fact that they can create a piece much faster than I could, should have no impact on the score of the item. It should be judged on how well it was made.

However, I do think that the Regent should know how many awards someone had prior to the competition. Yes this can (and should) be looked up online. But asking the entrant to place that on an entry form (that the judges do NOT see) help the Regent to make sure that the ORK and the players account match up.

And on a final note, photography is a crap category and should be removed.

Have a nice day.
Author:  wallflower [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon Master XXXII: Reign L
I agree with Aylin and Forest, time shouldn't be included or matter. The only instance i can see it being a valid part of your entry is how long it takes to make and item for a how-to or a workshop proposal, so anyone planning on following the directions has an idea of how much time it will take them. For the most part i don't watch a clock when i'm crafting, and i don't necessarily work on one project at a time.

I would love to hear other people's opinions on it. Especially since as Tigger pointed out it was used just recently for Olympiad and is asked for often.

Also agree with Forest on the awards as part of the entry card. I'm more then happy to make it easy for the Regent and put it on my entry form, but judges are human. when they figure out who made an item or have certain expectations of them because that person already received awards they'll try to keep the bias out, but they're likely to see the item differently.
Author:  cynisca [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon Master XXXII: Reign L
Please remove the time requirement on the card.

If person a and b make the same sword; person a takes only 2 hours and person b takes 4. Does that mean
A) person a rushed through it and person b paid more attention to detail?
B) person a can make it more efficiently and person b is just slow?
C) person a didn't include two hours for the glue to dry?
D) person b padded his time to sway judges?

More personal example: I have an afghan I started in 2009. Every once in a while I'll pick it up and do a little bit of work. So if I entered it do I say I've worked on it for about 5 years, or do I guesstimate how much each bit adds up to?
Would it be more impressive if I said the smaller guesstimated amount or the 5 years?
Author:  Aylin_Karyn [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dragon Master XXXII: Reign L
wallflower wrote:
Also agree with Forest on the awards as part of the entry card. I'm more then happy to make it easy for the Regent and put it on my entry form, but judges are human. when they figure out who made an item or have certain expectations of them because that person already received awards they'll try to keep the bias out, but they're likely to see the item differently.


This too. Judge the piece for what it is, whether the entrant has made dozens or not, has received awards or not. Let Judges say, "Hey this item was really good, and I think it would be worth up to a --th order of ------." And the regent will have a handy-dandy list of awards for each entrant to see if awarding such and such order is a possibility.

Personally, I love to dabble in new skills and would hate to see my first attempts judged against my already having higher level dragons. As much as I would like to trust a judge to be objective, we can make it easier on them by not including the extra information that could influence their opinion of a piece.
Author:  Docsi [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re: Dragon Master XXXII: Reign V
I don't think including a time frame is a good idea. Im a potter. It takes a ton of time for clay to dry before I can move to the next step in the process. Do I include this drying time in my estimate of time took to complete? It is an essential step in the process, but I personally don't have my hands on it as it dries. There are many examples of this. Time taken is a BAD idea
Author:  Diestro [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re: including the time taken to create?
I have no idea how to estimate the time involved in writing a poem.
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